129: The Science Behind Redox Cellular Healing

Transcript of Episode 129: The Science Behind Redox Cellular Healing

With Dr. Daniel Pompa, Meredith Dykstra and Special Guest, Dr. Maureen Hayes

Meredith:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m your host, Meredith Dykstra, and this is episode number 129. Today we are going to be delving into the science behind redox signaling molecules. Now, we had talked a lot about redox on Cellular Healing TV before; however, today we have a guest expert, Dr. Maureen Hayes, who has been working with redox for quite a while now and has a lot of clinical experience working with it, has a lot of wisdom, and a lot of understanding behind redox. We’re really excited to jump in and to really delve into the science a little bit more.

Before I introduce Dr. Hayes and she and Dr. Pompa get started, I’m going to tell you a little bit more about Dr. Maureen. Maureen Hayes, M.D. has been a physician for over 25 years. She’s board certified in both anesthesiology and pain management. She’s been certified in age management medicine and acupuncture. She has been an assistant professor in anesthesiology and pain management at the University of Texas MB in Galveston, Texas. She’s been the chief of anesthesiology in Marlborough Hospital in Marlborough, Massachusetts. I know where that is. I used to live in Massachusetts.

She’s also worked as an anesthesiologist at a number of hospitals including Mount Auburn and Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary, both part of the Harvard system. She’s also a Diamond Executive with ASEA, and a member of the ASEA Medical Professionals Board. ASEA is the redox product we’re going to be speaking about later in the show. Anyway, amazing resume, Dr. Maureen. We’re so excited to have you on Cellular Healing TV. Welcome to the show.

Dr. Maureen:
Thank you. I’m really honored to be here.

Dr. Pompa:
You know, I have to – and thank you, absolutely. I have to ask this question. I asked it even before we started the show, right? I said, “Okay, wait a minute.” I said, “This doesn’t add up.” How does someone end up from the world of anesthesiology – even your husband is an anesthesiologist with stem cell research, even grew a lung outside of the body. How does someone go from that to this world now? There has to be a story. My analogy was it’s like an engineer who’s an artist, and I actually saw one of those. How?

Dr. Maureen:
Great question. I like to call my story All Roads Lead to ASEA because different things happen during your life that point you in different directions.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. That’s true.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Anesthesia, it’s a wonderful field. It’s very interesting. It’s a lot of responsibility getting people to go to sleep and of course waking them back up again. In later years, I was working mostly as a pain physician, pain specialist, helping people with chronic issues. I had practiced pain up in Massachusetts, which is a tiny state, a lot of collaboration between the states. There’s good medical care, not to say that there’s not in Texas. There’s fabulous, but Texas is a huge state here, and there’s a lot of people who don’t have great resources as far as getting their medical procedures and all covered. That seems to be a problem throughout the country, of course.

What I was noticing is that I was putting many, many more people on narcotics and then using other medications and other prescriptions to help the side effects of those medications. In pain, at the time when I was still practicing that full-time, there were about five different classifications of medications that we could use, everything from the narcotics to antidepressants to anti-inflammatories, anti-seizure medications. It just seemed like I just kept piling people up. Not as many people could afford procedures that maybe could help or even some of the rehab therapies that we would like them to take advantage of.

It really hurt me that a lot of people really couldn’t afford not just good medical care, but good health. I started looking for other ways to empower my patients to take control of their own health, and what they could do as far as improving the quality of their health, and improving the quality of their life. That led me down a road to acupuncture, which was just amazingly eye opening as far as Eastern medicine is concerned – some energy medicine, mind/body. Of course, John Kabat-Zinn was from U Mass, so had access to a lot of his teachings and all, and so I used that. Now, in 2008 – I live in Galveston, Texas – we were ravaged by Hurricane Ike. I don’t know if you guys remember that or not.

Dr. Pompa:
I do.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Our hospital was closed down for six months, and we were out of our home, and living someplace else. My husband was commuting from Galveston to Houston, and I took a leave of absence for one reason, to help my son, who was in high school at the time. His high school was closed, so we were looking for another school. I just sort of transitioned full-time into wellness and into educating people about what they could do.

Now, ASEA and redox molecules came into our life at the end of 2012. My husband, who is a pediatric anesthesiologist and stem cell researcher, as we were saying, was also in the military. He’s now retired. He’s a colonel in the Army Reserves. He was in Iraq running; ended up with a lot of wheezing. One of the docs told him – recommended that he get a chest X-ray, which showed that he had a mass in his chest. Came back home.

That was treated, and the treatment, like a lot of people who have life-threatening illnesses, the treatment can be very severe. You’re very thankful to have your life, and to be alive, and to be disease-free, but it can really compromise your quality of life, which is what he experienced. He went from being a runner to being short of breath going across the room. We were looking for answers. He had oxygen at home and had been – Yeah – went to see a pulmonologist about lung transplantation. He was like, “This is crazy. I’m growing a lung outside of the body, just not fast enough for myself.”

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. When you first told me this story, I didn’t even put that together that they actually grew a lung – first, right, to grow a lung outside of the body?

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
-Inaudible- is with a lung – yeah. That’s interesting.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. So far, they’ve just been putting them in pigs, but you know humans are down the road.

Dr. Pompa:
No, I know.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. That was sort of our story. A friend of ours, who was not even medically inclined, said, “Hey, you might want to check this out.” Now, I had never heard of redox signaling molecules. That was just not verbiage that ever come across my desk, and I didn’t know what he was talking about.

There were a couple of videos at that time. There was one by Dr. Nieman at Appalachian State Human Performance Lab that I watched that showed athletes and how they were able to increase oxygen utilization and some changes that they were having. I thought to myself –

Dr. Pompa:
That, too, by the way. That got me – I think I overdosed the ASEA. That’s another story. I don’t know if that’s possible, but I got a detox reaction. Anyway, another story.

Dr. Maureen:
That can happen. Yeah. That can definitely happen if you get started quickly.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s true. Go ahead.

Dr. Maureen:
Anyway, we took a leap of faith, and we got on the product. What was interesting is I shared the information with my sister. She’s not a physician, but she is a medical writer at the Medical University of South Carolina where I went to med school. I was telling her about it, and she said, “Oh, I’ve heard of redox signaling molecules.” I was like, “You have not. How would you have heard of them?” She said, “No, truly.”

She said, “The Med U just got a ten and a half million dollar NIH grant to study redox signaling molecules in a number of different disease states, cardiovascular, neuro-degenerative, obesity, diabetes, and aging.” I was like, “You’re” – so she sent me the media release. I was like, “Oh, my gosh!” I became very intrigued by the science that other people knew about that I had never heard of. I’m sure you went through the same thing. I started kind of delving into it. Went to PubMed; was absolutely amazed that there were, at that point, I think, eight or ten thousand references to redox molecules. I thought, “What is this stuff?” Now, I was not that pleased to find out it went back to the Krebs cycle. That was something that I was hopefully –

Dr. Pompa:
Krebs cycle. Do I really have to learn this again?

Dr. Maureen:
I know. That was – been a nightmare for years. You know, it’s really interesting. Anyway, long story short, we’ve had amazing product response to the redox signaling. Now that I understand a little bit more about how it works at the cellular level, it totally makes sense. It’s a little bit of a missing link in what we have to help people. Everybody can look around, and look at the disease states, and look at what people are experiencing. You know something is wrong, and you don’t know how to fix it all the time. This gives us a bridge into the very foundation of health, something that we can change at the cellular level and help people to optimize their results.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. You know, it’s funny because we – talking even before the show that you and I went through a very similar experience, right? We both were like, “Come on. What is this pool water?” Here it was just sodium chloride? What’s in it? We immediately read the ingredients and say, “Okay. I don’t see how that can help.”

Dr. Maureen:
Exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
Again, my wife used it results. I was reading the studies that you mentioned, how it helps athletes and VO2 max. I got all excited and started just drinking tons of it right out of the gate and of course got some headaches and fatigue. I’m thinking, “Well, that product’s no good.” Meanwhile, I just tossed it aside because I didn’t understand the science.

Redox was new to me. When I don’t understand something, there’s less of a chance of follow-through, although my wife kept drinking it. That was the funny part. She even found a source that defined it, to get it beyond me. It wasn’t until years later that someone said – brought it back to me. I was like, “Oh, yeah. I looked into it,” but there was this reminder of my wife loving this product.

Dr. Maureen:
Wow.

Dr. Pompa:
I looked at it again, and they introduced me to Dr. Samuelson. He explained the science to me. Like you, I just had to understand the science. I had to dig deep into this whole new technology. Folks listening and watching, redox is – past 10 years, this has exploded. This is new research. If we’re going to do anything at the cellular level, if we understand why people get sick or can’t get well, we’d better understand redox.

Look, tell a little bit about – obviously you learned more about redox. Maybe our viewers need a simplified version because people watching this show – we’ve only done a few shows on redox. What is it? Why is it so important, and really, why do we see these amazing clinical results? Talk about what redox is.

Dr. Maureen:
One of the ways that I like to explain it is it’s kind of the secret language of the cells. Everybody knows that if they cut themselves, generally speaking, that gash is going to heal itself up. We don’t really stop often to think about why that happens. How is it that those fibroblasts and those different cells are called to that area to complete the healing?

This is all happening at the cellular level. These little redox molecules – going back to the Krebs cycle that I was talking about. Inside the cells are the little powerhouses, the mitochondria that fuel – they take the food that we eat, and they use that to produce energy that runs everything in our bodies. When we’re young, we have a ton of these mitochondria. We have thousands of them in our cells even now.

Dr. Pompa:
Maureen, I always like to say athletes have far more than normal people. Sick people have far less mitochondria than –

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Absolutely. As we get older, not only do we have less, but they’re lazy. They’re not functioning the way they used to. What we’re looking at here is you know your DNA stays the same. We all watch CSI and everything else, and you know that you can dig up a body, and you can find the DNA, and the DNA is the same, but it’s not working the same. As we get older, we start to see changes. We start to see graying of the hair, and wrinkling of the skin, and sagging – Yeah. I know. Me, too. I’m not going to show you my roots – degeneration all over the place. Why is this happening? We have the same DNA, so what is it? Of course there is some programming in our bodies that different things shut down at different times, but what’s that even all about? How does it know? How do these things know what to do?

It has to do with the signaling in our cells. Now, it took me a while to grasp this. When you’re drinking this pool water liquid that we were talking about – it says, “Salt water” on the back, and you smell it, and you’re like, “If it’s salt water, why does it smell like pool water and taste like pool water?”

Dr. Pompa:
That’s what I said.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. It’s kind of crazy. Anyway, you’re taking this. You take it in your mouth, and it works immediately. It’s like, “How is that even possible?” If you think about how the body works, things happen just like that. You put your hand on a hot stove, and it’s off before you’re even aware of it. If somebody scares you, your heart starts pounding immediately. This all has to do with signaling in the body.

What it really is is a balance between positive and negative molecules that are an offshoot of this energy production reaction that’s happening in every cell in your body. If you think about it, there has to be a certain balance, and there’s a certain, maybe, set of signals that go out like SOS or Morse code. As we get older, and we have fewer of these mitochondria, and they’re not as effective, and not as efficient, that signaling gets off balance. If you thought about these molecules as being like ink in an ink jetter – in an ink jet printer –

Dr. Pompa:
One of the things you’re saying is in the mitochondria, obviously, when we produce energy, we’re making these redox molecules.

Dr. Maureen:
Right.

Dr. Pompa:
The mitochondria get more lazy or damaged. All the toxic folks that I see, the mitochondria is where the problem is. It’s under attack. We start producing less, and then when we start producing less of these molecules, now we have a massive communication problem going on. Correct?

Dr. Maureen:
Exactly, and they’re out of balance. You’re not getting the correct – in a lot of instances, you’re not getting the correct signal. If you’re talking about ink, if you’re trying to send a green message to the cell next to you, but you’re out of yellow, then you’re sending a blue message. It’s close, but it’s not perfect. The cell next to you sends back a blue response.

You’re like this, but over time, you’re like this. When that communication is off, we start to see breakdown in some of the activities of the body. Communication is off, so we see challenges. That’s why we’re seeing so many more people with cells that are attacking each other rather than recognizing each other as self. These things get out of control. When we look at what the redox signaling molecules do, they’re really involved in just about every reaction of the body.

Dr. Pompa:
Yup.

Dr. Maureen:
Antioxidant efficacy and activation, that’s sort of a defense mechanism. What most people don’t realize – everybody’s filling up. They’re eating their weight in blueberries, and vitamin E, and whatnot, number one, they have to be turned on, but then again, they have to be turned off. Something has to go in, and do its job, and then be done. Otherwise, you’ve got too much of a good thing going on. One of the molecules or one of the sets of molecules are the reactive oxygen species. People go, “Oh, no. What’s that all about?”

Dr. Pompa:
ROS.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah, ROS. “Oh, no. You don’t want ROS.” No. It has a function in the body.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely. In the public’s mind, those who have heard of it – we’re talking about these molecules that drive oxidation. They’re free radicals. They inflammation, right? It’s true; however, you’re going to make another point here because there’s a purpose with them, too.

Dr. Maureen:
Right. Absolutely. When we talk about hydrogen peroxide, say, you know people are pretty familiar with hydrogen peroxide. They use it for all sorts of stuff. It’s also damaging, but it has a role, right? In the body, we have little cells that carry hydrogen peroxide, and if there’s a bacteria or an infection, it releases it, and then it’s neutralized. You have something that has potential harm to it that is doing something for good, but then it’s neutralized.

That’s why we have to have the positive and the negative so they counterbalance. It’s a check and balance system. If you look at – you’re an athlete. You look at exercising. What are you doing? You’re breaking down muscle, and then you’re rebuilding it, right? Actually, there’s a negative to that before you get a positive. That goes on constantly in our bodies. That’s part of the healing. Our cells are always regenerating themselves. It’s very interesting.

I tell people, “Look, you have a chance right now. Your body is not going to be the same in a year, three years, five years from now. You have the opportunity to make better decisions about what you do and what your body’s made out of.”

Dr. Pompa:
That’s very -inaudible-

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. We know if we just continue along with the same – the standard American diet, no exercise, sitting on the couch, all that, your body in five years is not going to be anywhere near what you have now. If you do the right things, and if you make changes at the cellular – if you start to improve cellular function, cellular efficiency, so that everything that you’re doing good is magnified, that’s going to cause you to actually be younger in three years, in five years, or at least stay the same. It’s pretty amazing.

When I was going through my training for age management medicine, one of the professors was saying, “There’s a triad of health.” It’s diet, exercise, and hormonal control. I thought about that – and the most important hormone being insulin. I thought, “Okay. When we’re talking about hormones, what are we talking about?” We’re really talking about a signaling system. Whether it’s neurotransmitters or it’s hormones, these are messengers that have a cause and effect in the body. If you take that down even to a lower level than that, even something more foundational than that, it’s the redox signaling molecules.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. You know, a lot of people watching this, I’m telling you, we’ve heard a lot about…

Dr. Maureen:
Ooh! Sorry. I forgot my phone rings through my computer. I’m sorry.

Dr. Pompa:
I was going to say, “Wow! That was a loud phone!” I was like, “Whoo, boy!” These iPhones today – but anyways, most people today, they’ve heard of antioxidants. In their minds, they link antioxidants with anti-aging. Would you agree? What we don’t understand is what you just said. With new science, redox signaling being part of this science, is that there’s this delicate balance of we need to oxidate. That’s how we make energy. That’s how our immune system works. It even drives inflammation that we need on an acute stage, not a chronic one – this perfect balance of oxidation and antioxidant that we need.

Redox is that bridge, right? Redox is that thing that creates this balance, that innate intelligence, right? We can’t go, “I’m going to eat antioxidants today. I’m going to do some things – antioxidant. I’m going to go exercise. We get oxidation, and I’m going to take some” – can we win that battle ever? No way, right?

Dr. Maureen:
No. Just to further complicate it, it’s that if you don’t have activation of those antioxidants, doesn’t mean we could –

Dr. Pompa:
They don’t work.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. An analogy I heard is that if you’re in a dark room, and you bring in a light bulb, it’s still going to be dark. It doesn’t matter if you bring in an entire box of light bulbs, that room is not going to be lit until you turn the electricity on.

Dr. Pompa:
No. Listen, I have a theory with a lot of people who just immediately take ASEA and go, “Oh, my gosh!” A lot of them have plenty of glutathione in their cell, right?

Dr. Maureen:
Mm-hmm.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s there; however, it’s like you just said. They’re just light bulbs in a room. Then all of a sudden, you throw the redox in, and boom! Now all of a sudden that glutathione is actually able to be used. How many more things that we don’t – and by the way, those watching, glutathione is the strongest antioxidant that’s naturally in every cell in our body. Matter of fact, it’s so important that if the cell doesn’t have it, the cell dies. That’s how important glutathione is, and we know it’s how the cell naturally detoxes.

You can have that glutathione in your cell, but if it’s not activated or able to be utilized with redox molecules, it doesn’t matter. How many more things that we haven’t even discovered yet that need these redox molecules? We put those sparks in there; now all of a sudden they’re working again.

Dr. Maureen:
Exactly. We’re just scratching the surface.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.

Meredith:
I just had a quick question, too, Dr. Pompa. You said for those who take ASEA or a redox product and feel a huge reaction, what about on the other side, where someone takes a redox product and feels nothing?

Dr. Pompa:
I have my theories because we have that. There are some people who need so much more. Some people react to literally drops of it. Maureen, what’s your feeling that?

Dr. Maureen:
That’s really interesting. I’d love to hear what your theory is. What we have noticed is that if people are over 40, 45, that taking the recommended two ounces, two ounce serving twice a day, may not be enough. Now, if they’re doing enough other right things like you’re talking about – maybe they have bumped up their glutathione. Maybe they’ve got a healthy lifestyle and all. Maybe they have been supplementing with antioxidants, and all of a sudden, they’re turned on, and they’ve got energy through the roof.

For a lot of people who are deficient, just naturally deficient – because what we do know is there is about 10% decrease in the amount of mitochondria and redox signaling molecules per decade once someone has gone through puberty. By the time you get to 40, 45, you’re running at a deficit. Your body is not as efficient as it was previously. What I like to do is bump people up. I start them for two ounces twice a day. It will start your cells working more efficiently, so they’re going to start cleaning things up.

You really want to make sure people are flushing, drinking plenty of water, eliminating both ways to make sure things are moving out of the body. If you’re plugged up or constipated, you’re going to get to revisit some of those things over and over again, so people can feel bad. You need to make sure elimination is working and that they’re flushing. Let people try that for a day or two, and then I have them bump it up. I usually have people go on eight ounces a day for their first month, and then they can see.

They can listen to their own body. They can come – work it back down, see if they feel as good. In my house, we all take eight ounces a day. It’s just where we feel better. If we have some stress, or we’ve been traveling, or maybe sleep deprivation, we may bump it up even higher than that because we just need an extra boost at that time.

Dr. Pompa:
One of the things I’ve learned – I’m dealing with very sick clients. You know that they’re very challenged at the cellular level. They start working up, and literally, they get to eight. I’ve even had people get to 10 ounces, and still say, “I don’t feel anything.” Then I just say, “Stick it out.” “Oh, but it’s getting expensive,” and we’ll talk about that.

“Okay. Look, let’s cut back, and let’s just keep giving your body redox.” We’re still working at the cellular level, detoxing and doing all the cellular – all of a sudden, one day they start noticing it. Here’s how I tell them: I say, “I want you to stop the product for a month,” and they stop it. They go, “Oh, gosh!” Then they realize what it was doing, but it took some months to get their redox actually – because they have so many deficits. Their body is wasting their redox. Their body’s utilizing it, and they just don’t notice that difference.

After a period of time, it actually starts working. They just don’t realize it oftentimes, but when they stop it and then restart it, then there’s a noticeable difference. There’s so many demands on redox today, and it’s so different for everyone that I think that’s why you get such a wide variety. That’s a theory, anyway.

Dr. Maureen:
I agree. I tell people, “Look, if you’re going to continue with the standard American diet, and no exercise, and maybe drinking, or some of the other vices that people have,” I said, “You’re going to keep your redox molecules busy.”

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.

Dr. Maureen:
They may not have time to get to some of the deeper issues. I will tell you we didn’t have this information three and a half years when we got started. Unlike you, I didn’t overdo it with the ASEA. We kept ours to two ounces twice a day and really felt nothing for six weeks. Nothing. I was like, “This is such a scam. This is expensive water with salt in it.” I just had no belief.

I’ll tell you, it was funny. A girlfriend of mine, who is an RN, she lives in Seattle, so not close by me, but she was suffering horribly with – she’d had surgery on her wrist. It was not healing. A year later, she was having excruciating pain. She couldn’t make a fist. She couldn’t write with her hand, just terrible, and not sleeping through the night. I was talking to her, and I said, “Look, there’s this crazy product.” At that point, I was like, “I don’t even know how it works or if it works, but you’ve tried everything else. You might as well give it a shot.”

She got on the product, and she had an overnight response to it. I mean, literally, the swelling was down. She could make a fist. She could use it. Slept through the night. That got my attention. I was like, “That is really interesting.” Right at about six weeks, I was going through – I had mentioned that my mother had passed. I was going through some depression from that. All of a sudden, I felt great again. It was like somebody had pulled back a veil. Colors were brighter. Birds were singing, and I just kind of leaped out of bed. I was like, “Thank gosh! I’m back!”

My son, who had come home from college, and he was going through some things himself, he comes bounding into the room with all this energy. I was like, “What got into him?” We were like, “Wow!” In our family, it took a while, but thank goodness we stuck with it because then we got our – our miracle was down the road. Yeah. It is. Everybody responds differently.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no doubt. I said before we got on the call – I had a message from one of my doctors. It wasn’t at all. We were sharing. We have a group of us, and we would share how much ASEA had changed his life even in an athletic standpoint. He was saying all these things had changed. We get these testimonies all the time. I say to our viewers and listeners, there is different doses. I hope you hear us saying that.

A lot of my really challenged patients, I have to start out with very small amounts. I really do. Start out at a two ounce twice a day if you’re relatively healthy. If you start getting headaches or detox signals, listen to Dr. Maureen, and [00:28:53] pathways. However, just cut the dose back for a few days, and then increase it again because typically sometimes that’ll give time – the body to adapt, slow down some of that detox that’s happening, and then pick the dose back up. The bottom line is find a dose. Don’t be afraid of doing the doses at much higher doses up to six, eight ounces.

Dr. Maureen, with my clients, I do the same thing. Take it away from other things, the ASEA, folks listening, even just five, ten minutes before you take other pills, five, ten minutes before food. Let those redox molecules absorb. I even hold it in my mouth for 30 seconds, kind of it around. Anyways, we’re going to get those questions, so I’m trying to nip them in the bud right now.

Meredith:
I got it right here, the ASEA product.

Dr. Pompa:
There’s the product. Tell us some more of things, how you’re using it with people. Oh, Meredith, you had a question. Sorry.

Meredith:
Just quickly, just what you said. How is it absorbed, exactly?

Dr. Maureen:
That’s a good question. My understanding is that it goes to work immediately. They’re like little, fleeting angels, these molecules. What I recommend –

Meredith:
– these redox molecules.

Dr. Maureen:
Say that again?

Meredith:
The redox molecules are suspended in this saline solution, right?

Dr. Maureen:
Exactly. Exactly. If you hold it in your mouth, the longer you can hold it, the more uptake you’re going to get right into – in through the mucosa. There’s a number of people who the product actually makes them nauseous. I hate to say that. It’s something everybody kind of has to work through. I know my husband, because he was so toxic when he got started, it was really a challenge for him to take it.

I’ll tell people, “If you really can’t swallow it, swish it around for 30, 60 seconds. Hold it in your mouth as long as you can, and then spit it out. You’re going to get a huge uptake of the molecules directly from your mouth.” Yeah. It goes to work – even before it hits the stomach, you’re absorbing it. The longer you can kind of hold it in your mouth, the better it’s going to be.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. What other conditions do you see? I know you’re not in private practice or in practice in that sense anymore. You completely shifted your life partly because of this molecule here. What other conditions do you see where you like to – what have you seen?

Dr. Maureen:
You know what? It totally runs the gamut. One of my husband’s closest friends from – he went to Harvard. This guy was a renowned businessman. He had an event last September that left him with paralysis on one side. He overcame a lot of that through rehab, but he was in excruciating pain. My husband was talking to him. He called up my husband, and just couldn’t cope with it anymore. My husband said, “You’ve got to try this product. Let me let you talk to my wife. She’s a pain specialist anyway.”

We got him started on it, and he was able to sleep through the night for the first time in several months. Pain was greatly reduced, and function was increased. He’s now driving again, sleeping through the night, and starting to work again after not being able to do these things for several months. What’s interesting is he was on an auto ship program. He had changed it, and somehow, the computer had just pushed it out – his auto ship out for a month, so he ran out of it.

Was out of it for about a week. Pain came back with a vengeance, and he was like, “Oh, my gosh! Oh, my gosh!” so we had to get him on even larger doses to get it back under control and get it back down. When you’ve had that, you get kind of used to a level of discomfort. When it’s taken away, and it comes back, it seems to be even 10 times worse. That just has been amazing and just really life changing for him. I have another person. In fact, I’m doing a training tonight, so I wish I had had it set up because I have photos of a couple of different things. I have a woman who had five different autoimmune challenges, who –

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, I love this product for autoimmune. I get so many autoimmune conditions. I’ve seen absolute miracles happen there. Go ahead. Finish your story.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. That goes back to when I was talking about those conversations between the cells. When you correct that conversation, you sometimes can correct the challenges. With this woman, if you saw her before and after pictures, they’re almost not believable within a four-week period of time. She has an allergy to almost all medications. She can’t take any kind of steroids or anything else for what she was going through.

When she was introduced to the ASEA and the RENU 28 – and we’ll talk a little bit about that, as well. She started on the product, and you could actually see the swelling went away. The features of her face, it looked like she lost 10, 20 pounds. Her eyes are so much clearer. Her energy is up. She had been walking with a walker, and also, when one of my team members met her, she was stooped over a shopping cart and could barely function. Now, she’s walking unassisted, and just a totally different quality of life. Just incredible.

Dr. Pompa:
When I said my wife got an immediate response, my wife was loaded with lead. She had all types of pain, very common to lead, and different pain things. When we were detoxing lead out of her, this would come and go. She started the ASEA. I’m telling you, it made her detox experience amazing. That’s because I do so much cellular detox on my clients that ASEA plays such an important role, so it’s a lot of the reason why people can’t detox because they lack redox molecules. These different pain things and unexplainable symptoms, it’s remarkable.

You get the cells communicating, and you balance this oxidative/anti-oxidative system at the cell, stuff happens. I want to say this for viewers: It can almost come across – and for a couple of reasons here. It’s like we’re snake oil salesmen. You and I are very – we were turned off. Let’s think about that, right?

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
The only way to get this product, by the way, ASEA that she held up – and by the way, it’s the only way to get redox right now, too, by the way. It’s through a network marketing company. How many of us have been approached by these things? You hear the stories. I always think, “Oh, my gosh.” Look, I don’t want to promote these things because of that reputation. I don’t. It’s not that I’m against network marketing. It’s changed a lot of lives, and there’s a lot of good products out there.

However, this stigma’s there. For my reputation and yours, for us to be behind a product like this, I’m just telling you, it should just echo how important it is. My doctors do not want to get behind multi-level marketing things and network things because of that reason, too, but we see the results from the product. Now, here’s the other complaint. It’s expensive. A lot of my patients go, “It’s expensive, but I know it’s” – how do you answer that? What do you tell that, you know?

Dr. Maureen:
I don’t mean to be cavalier about this. I know everybody is challenged right now. Funds are limited, but let me tell you what’s really expensive is being sick.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Yeah, no doubt. Absolutely.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. I was blown away. We were so blessed when my husband went through his challenge because we had our private insurance, and then we had his military insurance. Still, even just going – it was a daily trip to the hospital for quite a few months. It sounds ridiculous, just parking. If you’re parking, and it’s costing you $15 a day, how do people afford that? Had we had a copay for some of his treatments – we got a bill. One of his treatments was over $180,000.

Dr. Pompa:
Dr. Hayes, I have to say this, too. I kind of criticize network marketing because of the stigma, but one of the benefits is the average person can get – I don’t know the number. Is it four to five people in it with the auto ship, and you pay for your own product? Am I right on the numbers on that?

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. That’s pretty close. Yeah. You share it with a few people, and it’s – if you care about people – what I tell people is, “Ask permission.” If they have a challenge, and you have something, why would you not tell them about it? There’s 100%, 30 day, money back guarantee, empty bottle. They can use the product and say, “Hey, I don’t like it. I don’t want to take it. The value’s not there,” whatever. Company just returns the money to them. Yeah. When I got started – it’s really interesting. I got started. I didn’t want to do the business like so many other people. I had been involved in…

Dr. Pompa:
Nor do my doctors. We’re all in it for the product. I mean, we all are.

Dr. Maureen:
Right, right. I will tell you, that nurse who had the immediate response, she told a friend of hers, who is a physician, who has neuro-degenerative thing where he shakes. He was unable to eat. He had a pretty profound response, and it just starting taking off from there. Here, three years later, I’ve got over 3,000 people using the product, and it’s been – Yeah. That’s caused me to have an amazing income from it, and I don’t feel – a lot of people are like, “Oh, you’re making money off the backs of the people you care about.” I’m like, “No. As a physician, I’ve always been paid. My income has always come from helping people have a better quality of health and a better quality of life. I’m now doing it in a way that empowers them, and I’m being reciprocated or paid for that.” I feel really good about what I do.

Dr. Pompa:
Many of my own clients, I don’t talk to them ever about the business. I’m very upfront how they have to get it, but I can tell you this: They figured it out themselves. Not only are they paying for their own product because – yeah. It’s not cheap, right?

Dr. Maureen:
That’s right.

Dr. Pompa:
Now, they have an income from it. I hear those stories months down the road. It’s like, “Oh, my gosh.” I’m like, “Really?” I’m always amazed. I’m like, “Wow!” That’s always fun to hear. That is the up side of the network. Look, the bottom line is it’s the only way to get the product. You know what? Honestly, truth be told because my criticism in the beginning – I was always the skeptic. I was angry that they went network marketing once I learned it worked. I was like, “Why couldn’t they have done it?”

Honestly, pool water, imagine if it was on the store shelf in the health food store. Come on. I mean, let’s say. You said it took you six weeks. You’d have had one bottle; you’d have tanked it, right?

Dr. Maureen:
Absolutely.

Dr. Pompa:
There’s an education piece that has to go with this product when you give it to somebody. Otherwise, number one, they’re not going to take it. Number two, they’re going to – a few sips, tastes like pool water. They look at the ingredients. They’re done. It would have never made it if they didn’t. I don’t know whose decision that was, but it was the right one. My criticism, I can put to the side. The product wouldn’t be here today if it didn’t go that route.

Dr. Maureen:
We were very fortunate in that we were able to have dinner with Verdis Norton, the founder, very early on. Of course, as a physician, I was like, “Why did you not push for FDA approval?” I’m thinking like a doctor. I want to be able to say, “Hey, it treats this. It treats this.” He said, “You know what? We had all the documentation. We had all the toxicity studies from the original company that developed the technology – was a medical company, so they were under FDA review. They ran out of money, which is when Verdis Norton stepped in, hired Dr. Gary Samuelson and a team of scientists to figure out the mechanism of action to stabilize it.”

You have probably heard the story. They got about 40 people started on the product just to see if people would drink the pool water. These were people that they knew. They were friends, family, coworkers, church members, you name it. After about a couple of months, 40 people went to 135 in 20 different countries. That’s when they took it to a pharmaceutical company and were going to sell it to them. They said, Great. We’re going to take care of this. You don’t need to talk to anybody else. We’ll give you a check big enough. It’ll be generational [wealth], but you have to shut it down.

Six of those people had had life-threatening illnesses that had turned around on the product. When I was talking to Verdis about this, he said, “They decided to bring it as a network marketing rather than selling it off to the pharmaceutical company.” They said, “No” – as we say, “No to the money, and yes to the people.” I said, “Okay. That’s wonderful, but why didn’t you push if you were already in FDA review?” They said, “Well, we could have, but they had trouble getting what’s called an LD50, which is still the gold standard for a drug classification.” LD50, at what dose to 50% of the people, or animals, or whatever you’re giving it to perish? The more they gave the animals, the better they did.

Dr. Pompa:
I know.

Dr. Maureen:
He said, “It would have taken 10 to 15 more years to get FDA approval, and probably that many more millions of dollars, and it would have come out with one indication. You would have had to go see your physician in order to be able to use the product.” That’s why they brought it out to the market to get it into the hands of the people. Network marketing was just sort of the obvious choice when they had people kind of duplicating without…

Dr. Pompa:
I heard that story. In hindsight, it was the right decision. Look, we have thousands of doctors around the country, around the world, using this and getting these results. I promise you we would not be able to do the cellular healing and the cellular detox work that we do without the redox molecule. They fall in love with the product. I really believe it’s an answer to what’s going on with people, why people can’t get well. Again, this cellular work would be – it’s remarkable what it does.

Anyway, yes. That’s great. Meredith, I know you have some other questions, so I don’t want to cut you off, and we have to talk about the new product, which I use clinically.

Dr. Maureen:
Absolutely.

Meredith:
We just got right into it. I think that’s a perfect little foray into this. We’ve got the liquid redox signaling ASEA product, but now we have the actual – the topical ASEA gel, and it’s called RENU 28. Why don’t you guys talk about this?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Go ahead, Dr. Maureen. I speak to that. I use it clinically. I told you I even have people rubbing it on their thyroid, every skin condition, I start there. It’s a concentrated redox that we apply to the skin. Go ahead, Dr. Maureen.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. It’s amazing. That product is an absolutely homerun. In fact, when it first came out – and you guys have probably seen the pictures – the studies that they originally did with it was on the skin, texture of the skin, wrinkle depth, elasticity, firmness, things like that, and showed a huge improvement. They had a picture of a naturopath’s neck. She’s a woman from Norway, and she was one of the first beta users of the product. It showed before and after of her neck, and there was literally a stampede to the back of the room to get it. The change was so amazing. As a physician, of course, I thought that was a little superficial that people would be more interested in how they look than in the wellness overall.

Dr. Pompa:
Some age spots that I had. It took it away. It did.

Dr. Maureen:
See? See? The great thing about it is seeing is believing. When you’ve got this bottle of something that smells and tastes like pool water, and then you have a tube of something that has no smell, maybe a little stickiness. It’s very easy to use, nongreasy, and people get amazing results, then it’s much easier to go back and say, “Your face looks beautiful, but how about your liver, and your heart, and your lungs?” It’s an easy transition over. What we have found is that because we have been spraying – before we had the gel, we were spraying it.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. We were spraying it.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah – everywhere. It had amazing results, so people started using it from head to toe. What we found is that it improves blood flow. In fact, the studies have shown about 50% increase in blood flow. Just amazing results whether they were using it for discomfort to, as you were saying, over the neck, base of the skull, headaches. I have to say – because it’s not a medical product.

Of course, you’re using it for your patient base, and a lot of us are, but I’m just throwing the disclaimer in that we don’t use it to diagnose or treat. We’re just helping the body to heal itself.

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, I want to say that. Redox, we’re not using this to treat anything. We talk about how it had an effect on this, but it’s really because it’s just adding what the body already uses. It’s just the redox molecule.

Dr. Maureen:
Exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
In and itself, it fixes nothing, treats nothing. Ultimately, it’s allowing the body to fix it, and people need to know that.

Dr. Maureen:
Perfect. Perfect. It’s interesting. I have a doctor on my team who uses it. He’s amazing in and of himself. He’s 86 years old. He’s a family practitioner, still seeing a full clinic of patients every day. Drinks a ton of ASEA. When he first got started on it, he was using the gel. He said to his patients, “We’re going to do a little experiment. If you have some aches or pains, let me know. I’m just going to put a small dollop of this on it and rub it in. I’m going to come back. I’m going to see a patient or two, and I’ll come back, and see how you’re doing, but if you notice something sooner, I just want you to step out into the hallway.”

He went from room to room doing this. He said he came out of one patient’s room, and there were three people in the hall. He was like, “What in the world?” He said never in all the years he’s practiced has he seen anything that has worked so quickly. What we find is if you repeat – if you put it on a place where somebody is in discomfort, if you repeat that three times within a 10- or 15-minute period, 80% to 90% of people are getting relief. It’s just incredible. Now, it may not be lasting. They may to reapply it, but it’s pretty profound.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no doubt. Like I said, obviously – amazingly, I had cut my finger very deep, and I couldn’t get it – it was not clotting. It was deep enough that someone would have said, “You need stitches.” I put the RENU on it. I’m telling you, I’m not exaggerating. Within minutes, maybe seconds, it literally stopped bleeding. That’s the power of redox. When you say, “Okay, it increases blood flow,” there – it’s communication.

If you understand the massive amounts of communication, how the body brings white blood cells and all this stuff. It’s from the patient. It literally does that. I’m telling you, this stuff’s amazing. Again, story after story about RENU and different skin conditions. Of course, people, I think, initially get it because of the wrinkles, but ultimately it really is therapeutic.

Meredith:
I just used it. I got sunburned over the weekend. I was up at the lake, and I rubbed RENU all over my back. The next day, it wasn’t even red anymore. It was just a nice brown. It works.

Dr. Maureen:
It is. We keep it in the kitchen for cooking. My husband was grilling outside, and somehow put his thumb against the hot grill. He came in, and he was like, “Oh, my gosh!” We got the RENU on it, and he was just amazed. He showed it to me later. He said, “Not only does it not hurt; it’s not red. It’s not blistered. There is no sign of damage to my thumb,” that he had literally seared against that grill. It really is. Sometimes it’s a little bit hard to believe.

Dr. Pompa:
Now, they’ve developed – and admittedly, I haven’t used it yet because Revelation Health doesn’t have it yet, but after this conversation – even before we got on this show, Meredith’s like, “Okay, we’ll order that.” There’s a serum now that’s even stronger, right? Obviously more expensive, but for small areas would be a good application. How are you using that?

Dr. Maureen:
We’ve been using it pretty much cosmetically. It’s only been out since May. What we have found is for a lot of people, because of the results that they were having with the RENU, from the body, from head to toe – we even have people, honestly, who were starting to have hair growth, men who have been bald, who have – they get lesions on their head from the sun, and they were using it for that – starting to have hair coming back. Pretty amazing.

People were kind of clamoring for the next level, which is what they’ve got with the RENU Advanced. It’s not just the gel; it’s a concentrated form of the liquid. The liquid takes three days to make, to produce; the gel takes about eight days to produce.

Dr. Pompa:
I didn’t know that.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. It’s pretty amazing. Of course, the gel has two extra ingredients in it because it has to be pH buffered to the skin because it – that concentration changes the pH and also for the gel [matrix]. The intensive serum was actually made by a different mechanism altogether. It’s very expensive to make, and it’s very expensive. They hand fill those little vials. What they say is you’re going to use the RENU 28 anywhere that you normally would, face and body, and then any trouble spots you have, whether it’s deep wrinkles, circles under they eyes, puffiness under the eyes, crow’s feet –

Gosh, one place that we’ve seen amazing results is in drooping eyelids. So many people, as they get older, have to have surgery because their eyes become a little bit hooded from the sagging of the skin up there. I have people who – like I said, it has not been out for very long, but people who have scars on their faces, the scars are now – seem to be disappearing. Age spots, things like that – because it’s expensive, you’re just going to dab it on those trouble spots.

Use the RENU 28 first, and then dab it on the trouble spots. Like we were talking about before, using the RENU – because it is absorbed very quickly through the skin. If you’re using it or seeing if it’ll work on different – like thyroid area, or neck area, or whatever, you can try dabbing on the serum. It should be an even more profound effect.

Dr. Pompa:
I will. I’ll have people applying small amounts in the thyroid area. Yeah. It only makes sense. Go ahead, Meredith.

Meredith:
Can you drink it and take the – put the topical on if you’re using the serum? Can you overdo it?

Dr. Maureen:
No. There doesn’t seem to be too much that you can do. If you start very quickly, especially on the liquid, we do see sometimes a rebalancing for people, or things are starting to work that haven’t worked in a while, and so people might have a little bit of a headache. Some people might find themselves falling asleep a little bit or having some GI upset. Like I said, usually they’re over that in a couple of days or so. No.

We use all the products every way, and we use a lot of them. They’re nontoxic. You can’t hurt anybody with them. We have children using them. We use them on our pets.

Dr. Pompa:
I do, too.

Dr. Maureen:
You do, too? Yeah. My cats lick the gel off each other, and so far, no down side. They say don’t use the gel internally, but I just heard about somebody brushing their teeth with the gel.

Dr. Pompa:
I had some gum surgery, and I was rubbing it on it every day. Just remarkable healing, so -inaudible-

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It’s pretty amazing. We put the liquid in our eyes. It’s very soothing. It’s helpful. A lot of people report having to change their prescription, their eye prescription, not needing cheaters anymore.

Dr. Pompa:

Cataracts, macular degeneration, redox is huge for that stuff. We squirt it right in the eye, but the liquid, the ASEA liquid.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. We have people using it every which way.

Dr. Pompa:
Try it every which way. Hold on. Many of my doctors, they actually do enemas with the ASEA. For those who would get nauseous or not like the taste – but for other reasons, they started doing enemas with it with spectacular results. There you have it. Every other way actually means something in our world.

Dr. Maureen:
Yeah. We have a whole bunch of testimonials on people using it in the bedroom and things like that with good reports coming back.

Dr. Pompa:
Ahh! You took me a step further. Yeah. I thought I was pushing the envelope here. Okay, you beat me on that. All right. Meredith, do you have any final questions?

Meredith:
Would it be contraindicated with anything if someone’s on a high dose or really kind of intensive medication regime? Would that affect their medication?

Dr. Maureen:
You know what? It doesn’t interact with the medications, but what I tell people is work with your doctor. What we often find is when your cells start working better, it’s almost like making lifestyle changes. If you’re on a blood pressure medicine, and all of a sudden, you’re dieting, and you’re exercising, and you’re losing weight. You may need less of that blood pressure medicine. We see that happening, as well. Let your doctor know that you’re on something. It’s not going to interfere, but it may make those medications work better or make the cells work better. You do want to be cognizant of that because you may need to back off some things.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s great advice. Dr. Maureen Hayes, thank you so much. I know our viewers and listeners got a lot of information. I know a lot of people watching and listening that need this product, too, so thank you for educating them. Thank you for all you do, coming to this world. We are grateful for that.

Dr. Maureen:
My pleasure. Thank you for having me on. It’s been great talking to you, and I hope it’s been beneficial for everybody. Take care. Thank you.

Meredith:
All right. Thank you, Dr. Pompa. Thank you, Dr. Maureen. If you’re wondering about ASEA or RENU, how to get it, you can go to 180Solutions.info. That’s 1-8-0-S-O-L-U-T-I-O-N-S dot I-N-F-O. Feel free to call our office at 888-600-0642, and we can get you some information there. Thanks, everyone, for watching. I know I learned a lot, and we all take this product and are believers. We personally vouch for it. It is really incredible. Thank you so much for watching. I hope you learned a lot. We’ll see you next week. Have a wonderful weekend, and we’ll talk to you soon.

Dr. Pompa:
Bye.