193: You Are What You Eat, Eats

Transcript of Episode 193: You Are What You Eat, Eats

With Dr. Daniel Pompa, Meredith Dykstra and Mike Salguero

Meredith:
Hello, everyone, and welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m your host, Meredith Dykstra, and this Episode Number 193. We have our resident cellular healing specialist, Dr. Daniel Pompa, on the line and today we welcome a very special guest, Mike Salguero.

Mike is going to be delving into a topic today that is very important to all of us who are fans of good meat. He is the CEO of ButcherBox, which is a really incredible company that’s offering some really amazing, healthy animal products to all of us. We’re going to talk about this a little bit more, the ins and outs of what it means to have grass-fed beef, and organic, and natural, and all of these terms, and even the history behind why the meat that we have today is as it is.

Before we start this interview, let me tell you a little bit about Mike and then we’ll dig in. Mike Salguero is the CEO and founder of ButcherBox, the first delivery service dedicated to providing 100% natural grass-fed beef, organic chicken, and heritage pork to consumers. The idea of ButcherBox came to Salguero when his wife was pregnant with their first child and they wanted to eat the healthiest meat possible but had trouble finding 100% grass-fed beef.

ButcherBox was launched in September 2015 and today delivers natural organic meats directly to consumer stores nationwide through a simple monthly subscription service. All ButcherBox products are humanely raised and free of antibiotics, hormones, and GMOs. The mission of the company is to make natural organic meats available to everyone.

Mike, we’re so excited to have you on Cellular Healing TV. This is a really important topic to us and to a lot of our listeners and viewers out there. Let’s dig in.

Mike:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Pompa:
I told the story that I was having dinner last night and we had this amazing chicken. All of us, including my children, are like wow, this chicken is so good. My wife said, where did we get this chicken? I said, it’s funny you would ask because tomorrow I’m interviewing the CEO of ButcherBox, and that’s where we got the chicken, so thank you.

Mike:
Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
I’ve had other meats that you have and I can say right now, man, it’s spectacular. A lot of our viewers, listeners, they hear me talk about never make an exception. I don’t ever make an exception. It’s grass-fed or nothing. I want to talk about some of the pitfalls of chicken because that’s one of the most toxic foods on the planet.

Let’s start with the grass-fed thing. You wanted grass-fed for your wife. That’s part of your story. You might want to elaborate that. Why, Mike? I want our viewers to understand this distinction right now between grass-fed and grade. Maybe it’s even getting into the history, as well.

Mike:
Sure, yeah. My story is my wife and I—my wife has a thyroid condition. It’s an autoimmune disorder. We were looking at ways to help manage that. She did a bunch of elimination diets, and Whole30, and stuff like that to start eating better. In virtually every single of one those diets, they say eat grass-fed beef, eat pasture-raised meats, so we started looking for it. Lo and behold, it was really hard to find.

We went to the local grocery store, wasn’t there. I live in Boston. Finding grass-fed beef was not easy. I ended up buying a cow share from a farmer in New York, about a three-hour drive from here, who would bring over basically a trash bag full of meat and I would stuff it in my freezer and that would be our meat.

Did that for a few years, and in the process, really just realized this is—first of all, the meat is incredible. It’s way healthier, but it’s really just not a great experience for me to have to go pick up a trash bag full of meat. This would be so much better if it was delivered directly to my door.

I started just over two years ago. The idea was let’s just get the best possible quality meat from great farms and get it to customers. We actually started it with just beef, but it became pretty apparent pretty fast that people don’t eat that much beef in a month. Then we moved into chicken and we moved into pork and just tried to round out what our offering was.

To your question of why grass-fed, there’s definitely health benefits in terms of more vitamins, better fats, which customers like. There’s definitely environmental, the environmental side. A grass field is a carbon sink. It helps with the emissions that are associated with animals.

When I talk to people and try to explain to them why grass-fed, the thing that’s the most important from where I sit is—every cow starts the same way. The first six months it’s cow-calf, so it’s a cow feeding off milk. The next year every cow is just eating grass, and then it’s really that last part.

If you’re a corn-fed cow after the year on grass and the six months with the mother, you then go to a feedlot and spend six months on a diet of corn, grains, antibiotics, hormones, and the idea is to get you as fat as possible as fast as possible amongst hundreds of thousands of other animals. It’s what called a concentrated feeding operation.

Generally, given a diet of antibiotics and hormones keep you healthy and also help you put on a ton of weight versus a grass-fed animal where they’re just kind of left on the grass. They’re able to just live their life as nature intended. They’re able to just keep eating grass.

It’s not very hard to mentally understand, first of all, why feeding something foreign to the animal is not necessarily good, why putting on a bunch of fat that’s just from carbohydrates is not necessarily good, being in that type of environment around all these other cows, and all that stuff comes to you. We’re really big believers in animal welfare. We’re really big believers in providing a great quality product to our customer. It’s just not there when you’re buying something directly from a feedlot.

Dr. Pompa:
There’s no doubt. Here’s where I struggle. I don’t make the exception because I’ve spent time reading about how these things bioaccumulate in the meat, the stuff that they’re spraying on the grain. We talk about levels of chemicals on grain foods, but when the animal eats it to make one pound of beef, how many acres of sprayed grain is it? I forget, but it’s a lot, meaning that it takes all that acreage of all the toxins being sprayed on those grains in that one pound of beef, not to mention antibiotics, the hormones, the steroids; it’s all in that meat.

I’ve taken my time to educate myself there. I’ve educated myself on how when cows eat corn it throws off these fatty acid ratios. It disrupts our cell membranes, which I can tell you this. If you don’t fix somebody’s cell membranes, you will never fix their hormone imbalance. You’ll never turn off their bad genes. You’ll never detoxify a cell. I could go on and on about the science and I can tell you eating grain-fed meat destabilizes that cell membrane.

Those listening, if you don’t desire, have time, the knowledge base to do the research, trust me. I’ve done it. Grain-fed meat is something that I don’t make an exception on. You can ask my friends, my kids, my family, my wife. I will not make that exception because I understand the science. Let’s talk about this. When did this go bad, meaning that in the old, cows always ate grass? Your cows always eat grass because financially they can’t afford to eat a grain. Why are we feeding it grain? When did it go bad?

Mike:
1950s. Essentially, in the 1950s after World War II, there was a real scarcity mentality and also a hey, let’s add some industrialization to our food system. That’s where cows started going from just eating grass to large feedlot operations. From the perspective of let’s feed our people, a feedlot’s actually a pretty amazing—able to take an input of corn and add weight onto a cow. Obviously, I agree with you. I will never eat something corn-fed.

The feedlot came around in the '50s and has grown and grown and grown ever since. The stat right now is that 98% of the beef consumed in the United States is grain-fed. The grass-fed industry that we work on is a very, very small subsection of a small subsection of the actual market. By the way, that’s just on the beef side.

Chicken and pork, there’s a lot more grain in chicken and pork and that’s pretty much true for all chicken and pork. Unfortunately, there’s not really mean pastured options out there that are not eating grains, just for your audience’s information.

Dr. Pompa:
I brought up negatives. Let me bring up positives of grass-fed, and you can add to it. First of all, there’s something that when a cow eats grass called conjugated linoleic acid that we need to actually burn fat in our cells to be a fat burner. So many people lack this conjugated linoleic acid and it literally affects their cells' ability to use fat as an energy source.

We know that people have weight loss resistance because of this. Cows eat grass, take something called K1, and transform it into something called K2 that we need for strong bones, that we need to utilize calcium, magnesium, even our muscles to contract normally, our heart to beat normally. We’ve heard a lot about vitamin D, we’ve heard a lot about calcium, but we hear little about K2. I can tell you, there’s only a handful of vitamin deficiencies. Vitamin K2 is one of them. The reason why is because humans today are eating grass-fed nothing.

We don’t have the ability to eat grass or vegetables. There’s a couple vegetables that Americans aren’t eating that will have actual K2. Really, the only way to get it is via these grass-fed animals, whether you’re ingesting their diary, cheese, butter from 100% grass-fed cows, or the meat. You want to add anything to that? People listening to this have to understand yes, there’s the negative, but you’re missing some key things that we are depleted in today because we’re eating grass-fed nothing.

Mike:
I think that’s a really good explanation and you clearly know this topic in terms of nutrition way better than—hopefully better than I do here. I think there are a lot of benefits. First of all, it’s a superior-tasting product. One thing I tend to hear is oh, I tried grass-fed years ago. It was really tough; I couldn’t eat it. What that tends to be is somebody tried what was called grass-fed but was actually probably a dairy cow. That’s how the industry used to work. It would be like oh, people want grass-fed. Let’s just feed them a dairy cow that’s been being pumped for dairy for years, and years, and years and then is being used.

First of all, I think the taste is way better. Secondly, aside from all the health benefits, my body just feels way cleaner. It doesn’t sit in your stomach. It’s a better meal. For those that are choosing to eat beef and for those that are choosing to eat meat, I think grass-fed, you have to do it if you want to be able to live the healthy life that you want.

Dr. Pompa:
There’s no doubt about it. I think it’s one of those things that we should—nobody should make exceptions with because that’s how important this topic is. I agree. It’s hard to get for some people. That has been part of your niche, right?

Mike:
That’s right. That’s our mission.

Dr. Pompa:
Exactly, in these areas they order it. Tell me your standard. What is your standard? You have different suppliers. You have different farmers. What’s your standard as far as look, we make no exception here. This is why our meat’s the best.

Mike:
First of all on your first point, our mission is—and what gets us up and what keeps us going—is grass-fed beef everywhere, this notion that at any table anywhere in the US, and then hopefully abroad someday, we could serve grass-fed beef and people would love what they’ve received and etc. We ship everywhere in the country, and that’s hard to do but something that’s been fun to build from the ground up.

We have some pretty ironclad standards. First of all, there’s the standards of antibiotic and hormone free. We’re never-ever, which means any animal that is in our program has never ever been given an antibiotic or a hormone. Sometimes, companies say that but they don’t really mean it, like they could be fed an antibiotic early or they could be fed an antibiotic if they got sick but then they’re still in the program. For us, it’s a never-ever, so never an antibiotic, never a hormone.

The farmers aren’t cruel to animals, so what they do is if an animal got sick, they’ll give them an antibiotic. They just will pull them from the program and they’ll go sell it somewhere else. We’re humanely raised everything, so they are humane certifications that you can get.

Humanely raised is one of them, or certified humane, where they go in and they check all the practices from that animal being born all the way until when it’s slaughtered making sure that the animal’s treated with the utmost of respect, which is incredibly important to me.

There is not a lot of research on the health benefits of an animal that has lived a life of humane and respected, but personally, if I’m going to eat meat I think that’s incredibly important and something I definitely wanted to bring throughout our company.

It kind of breaks down depending on the product. All of our cows—so 100% grass-fed which means it’s eaten a diet of grass its entire life. Unfortunately, in the United States, the definition of 100% grass-fed has actually started to get changed. It doesn’t necessarily always mean that it was just fed grass.

We have also, then, moved to pasture-raised, as well, on the beef side. We are working with a few people in Oklahoma and we’ve actually been purchasing a bunch of meat from Australia because Australia is like—there’s 26 million people in the entire country, or continent. It’s almost of the size of the US, so there’s just tons and tons and tons of land and they grow an amazing product there.

A pasture-raised product is basically always out on the fields, never inside. There’s shelter in the event of a tough winter or tough summer, but usually it’s under a tree and not necessarily in a barn.

Dr. Pompa:
You’re trying to coin a new term, pasture-raised, because grass-fed’s been bottled down or watered down. What about grass-finished? That’s kind of what I use. I say is it grass-finished?

Mike:
I hate to further confuse the conversation because I think grass-fed, grass-finished, and all this has been completely—lo and behold, food companies are changing labels to confuse you and to have you not understand what you’re actually getting. Some companies will say grass-fed grain-finished and that’s the same as every other cow that you can get. Then there’s grass-fed grass-finished, which is essentially the same thing as 100% grass-fed. The challenge is the definition of grass has changed.

Basically, the short story is the USDA—this makes sense, but if you’re a farmer in Vermont, there are months out of the year where your cow cannot be out eating grass because there’s three feet of snow on the ground and it just can’t eat grass. What they do is they bring them into a barn and they feed them hay, also known as forage. What’s happened in the industry is the definition of forage has been broadened to include things like, for example, corn husks, and that can still be considered grass-fed. Learn something new.

Dr. Pompa:
-inaudible- a lot of farmers back where I used to live in Pittsburg. It was 100% grass-fed. He would ferment his hay and it was really good. Now, he wasn’t doing that because I don’t want a corn husk. Obviously it’s going to be GMO because that’s what 99% of the corn is. Now that creates a new problem.

Mike:
Correct. One of the reasons why we stand as a brand, and why I think this brand is really interesting, and we have a lot of room for growth, and improvement, and whatnot, is because there’s just so much misinformation out there. It’s just really hard for anyone to purchase something that they believe in. That’s where we come in.

I talk about, certainly here within the company, it’s really important for me to be home for dinner with my family, and to enjoy a great meal, and serve great food. Our ability to bring that to customers—we understand how important meals are, and the ability to just let people serve something that they’re happy with and proud of and know is safe is just super important. That’s right where we play.

Dr. Pompa:
Let’s talk about chicken because I find it very very difficult to find clean chicken. Joe Mercola’s a friend of mine and he will only buy from a source that 100% he knows. Even these people claiming their chickens are organic or this or that, this can be problematic. Explain to our listeners this chicken issue of finding clean chicken, and then you can kind of piggyback on how you find clean chicken.

Mike:
Chicken’s an interesting one. I guess a few things. Organic chicken is not necessarily—there are a lot of different ways you can raise chicken organically. Getting the certification is one thing, but then high humane standards and keeping those standards is really important.

There was just an exposé of a chicken company that had the standards but wasn’t adhering to them whatsoever. Really, you need to work with companies that are going into the farms and making sure that they’re doing the right thing or working with farms that you know totally agree with that.

We started with a pasture-raised program on our chickens but unfortunately, the majority of our customers didn’t want pasture-raised. We moved to organic and free-range organic and then tried to find the best possible chickens we could find, organic-plus, as I like to call it, but companies that are going above and beyond an organic certification.

When something is certified organic, it does mean that it was fed organic grain, so that means the GMOs are out. Unfortunately, it also means that they’re importing the grain, which is kind of crazy. There’s not enough non-GMO grain in this country so they’re importing it. There’s processing and there’s density issues. You want to make sure that your chickens can live life the way that nature intended.

The pasture-raised chicken, like I said, our customer didn’t really like that as the standard chicken in our box because pasture-raised is just very different chicken. It’s got smaller breasts; it’s got tougher legs. It’s just a different eating experience. We are looking into a few things on the chicken front. One is working with companies that are doing even more, pushing the envelope even further on the organic side. We’re also looking at pasture-raised chickens that taste more like what people are used to because there are some people doing some interesting stuff there. There’s also a whole conversation afoot on genetics of chickens.

Basically, the chickens that are being raised now are—it’s not really a humane breed. They grow too fast; they can’t move around. People’s taste for chicken has gotten to the point where the chicken can’t really keep up and there’s a lot of work right now to try to change that within the industry.

Dr. Pompa:
Like you said, the chicken seems to be the hardest. A pasture-raised chicken runs around eating bugs. They’re scrappers. It will eat seeds that it finds, even roots.

Mike:
Not to cut you off, but most people are spraying their fields or putting corn in their fields or grains in their fields. Very few people, unless you’re buying from a backyard farm, are just doing pasture-raised with nothing.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay. Talk about your chicken. You said you kind of have different grades of it, so explain to that if we’re ordering it. I really need to even get fussier about the chicken I’m eating.

Mike:
Like I said, our chicken is organic and free-range. Free-range means it has access to the outdoors. It can go out at any time. Unfortunately, most chickens like to cluster around their food, so really what you’re looking for are farms that are innovating on ways that they can get the chickens outside because for the most part, chickens like to just be right where their food is.

Organic being that there’s a humane standard there, certified humane as well as the feed it’s getting is all organic. What we have found in the pasture world is—we’ve done a few interesting—we’ve brought in pasture-raised birds and sold them individually, and people like them as an individual thing.

If people are really looking for that pasture-raised chicken, currently our chicken program is organic and free-range rather than pastured mainly because what we found was people are like wow, these breasts are really small or this leg is really tough, and it became people like the idea but not necessarily like what it tastes like.

Dr. Pompa:
Typical male, you know, it’s about the breasts and about the legs.

Mike:
You said it. I didn’t want to go there, but yep.

Dr. Pompa:
I’m a leg guy. Anyways, the tough legs, I don’t know. Anyway, okay, one more question. I know Meredith has probably better questions. Is there pork? Is there safe pork? Is there healthy pork?

Mike:
I think there is. A few things have happened in pork. First of all, pork is, in terms of humane treatment, is the most important one to get right. Pork, their brain, their emotions, the way that they work together, pigs are very, very smart and emotional and certainly, in terms of the three species that we work with, is the number one that you have to get right on the humane side.

Certified humane is incredibly important as is pasture-raised. Pigs are social creatures. They like to be around each other, but giving them pasture to walk around in is incredibly important. A lot of these concentrated feeding places are pig after pig, super small, crates, can’t turn around, dock their tail and it’s just an awful environment.

The thing that’s happened with pigs is—do you remember when it was Pork: The Other White Meat?

Dr. Pompa:
Mm-hmm.

Mike:
Basically, it used to be that pigs were fatty, and that fat is really tasty and marbled. Then, for a few reasons, one being that lean meat is easier to more rapidly put on a pig, the other being that the taste or the consumer started looking for less fat. In the '80s, low fat was the thing. All the pigs, all the fat got bred out of them.

What you have now is a really dry, lean pork chop rather than the way that pork is supposed to taste, which is really fatty, and marbled, and delicious. We work with a lot of doctors and bloggers, and we definitely hear some people say my audience, I tell them not to eat pork, but if you’re going to eat pork—I won’t get into pork or no pork. Obviously, we offer pork so that’s how I feel about. If you’re going to eat pork I think the pasture-raised nature, the humanely raised nature, those things are incredibly important to keep in mind and to have be the most important thing.

Dr. Pompa:
One of the arguments about pork is that they eat their own waste. Do they if they’re pasture-raised versus in a corral, kept all the time?

Mike:
I traveled in college and spent a summer in Ecuador on a farm, and I was the guy based out of the pen. They definitely do eat their waste when they’re penned. All I can say is I’ve never seen it; I don’t know, maybe? I’m not sure. I’ve been on a lot of pig farms; I’ve never seen a pasture-raised pig behave in that way.

Dr. Pompa:
I would argue this. Cows are meant to only eat grass. When they eat other things than grass, it affects the meat in a negative way. It affects the human. It affects our cells. Chickens and pigs, they’re omnivores. They have the ability to eat multiple things. I think starting there, a chicken can eat healthy grain; it can eat seeds; it can eat insects, right? Therefore, it’s an omnivore.

Pigs are the same way. Pigs can eat a lot of different things; they’re omnivores. Arguably, then, they’re able to eat other things and still remain a healthy flesh, unlike a cow. Let’s kind of separate there. Then it becomes okay, what are they eating? If a chicken or a pig is eating sprayed grain, that’s bad. If it’s eating GMOs, that’s going to be a bad flesh. They’re meant to go around and eat a bunch of different things. I think we can get away with a little more with those two animals. Am I right?

Mike:
Yeah, totally. The thing about the 100% grass-fed cow is their stomachs were designed to eat grass. That’s all they do. They just sit and eat grass, and they can get all the nutrients that they need. They eat a lot of grass, but they can get all the nutrients they need from that.

A pig can’t really live on grass alone; it needs other stuff. Again, they’re using grains to feed the pig. Some places will do similar to what you were saying where they eat—pigs were basically domesticated and then they were always the ones that were really close to the village, so they were the ones that ate trash or ate scraps from the table whereas the cows were out in the field.

If you go back 500 years, it’s fascinating. It’s one of the reasons why pigs are so emotional and so intelligent, and their jaws look like human’s, and their organs—in high school you dissect a pig because its organs look more like a human’s. The theory is that a lot of that came about over years, and years, and years of having it be domesticated and close to humans. It had to get smarter to know what to eat and not eat. Anyway, that’s a huge digression from where we are.

Dr. Pompa:
Send me some bacon. You described the dry one; have you brought it back to the fattier meat?

Mike:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s good. Alright, Meredith, I’ve exhausted myself picking his brain.

Meredith:
You guys have covered a lot of great questions and I’m so glad you did the breakdown of the cow, the chicken, the pig because there’s so many variations within it. What I was kind of thinking and curious about, too, as we talked about this, kind of the details of that certified humane, that regulation.

I was thinking a lot of these animals in the feedlots, especially the cow and—I’m not sure if this has been measured; maybe one of you know. I’m sure that their cortisol levels are very high in those very stressful situations, which would, of course, affect the animal’s cellular health, the way that the meat tastes, the ability for it to nourish us. Do you know of studies of cortisol levels in grain-fed versus grass-fed animals or unhealthy animals versus healthy animals?

Mike:
I don’t, unfortunately, but I do know—like I said before, we buy a lot of our meat in Australia. One of the really cool things there is one of the tests that they do. they do pH in all of the animals after they’ve been harvested. We’re only buying the top 10% of the product.

The whole idea with pH is keeping the stress level down, everything they’re solving for because the farmer actually makes more money. They get paid more for better rankings. Everything they’re solving for is trying to reduce stress as much as possible. That’s everything from what their trip is like from the farm to the harvesting facility, how they were raised, how they were treated, giving them time to chill out.

Yeah, absolutely. Stress has a really bad impact on meat. Not only is it bad for the animal but it’s also bad for the end product. I don’t have any data on a feedlot versus a non-feedlot.

Dr. Pompa:
That was a great question, Mer. Of course it would have an impact.

Meredith:
Thank you. I think of that quotation, which I think is so appropriate for this conversation, is it’s not you are what you eat, but you are what you eat eats, right? When we really think of that in terms of what we’re putting into our body as far as where it came from and what that animal ingested, we need to be really mindful of that.

I found, too, just now I’d much rather prefer a vegetarian option than an unhealthy animal option. I’d rather have just that salad without the meat versus a salad with an animal that’s come from a feedlot because I know that’s going to do a lot more damage than just foregoing protein for a little while.

I think that’s the really important thing to come into mind. I think this has been a great conversation, too. You guys have covered so much. Mike, just wondering if you can share some of the details about how ButcherBox works, and then I have a special offer that you’ve so generously made for our viewers and listeners.

Mike:
Yeah, for sure. The way ButcherBox works is—what we want to do is replace the butcher. We want to be your monthly meat source. We have two options. One is—I guess we have more than two. You can get a box every month or every two months, and then you can choose sizes. There’s regular standard box and then there’s the double box, which is for families.

Not to over-confuse things, but you can also—you can choose the curated box where we go and do all the hard work to find all the cuts that we think will be the best for the month and give you recipes, or you can get the custom box where some people—we launched it recently and really, it was in response to people who live in the middle of nowhere, don’t have another option, and want to make sure that they’re getting exactly what they want to get. That custom option, you get to choose exactly what you want in your box and we ship it to you on a monthly basis.

You go to our website, we have all the information about our animals, about the farms we work with, about our box, about our process, and yeah. It’s fairly easy to sign up. I know you’re going to give out some sort of coupon or a link to go to. We are all about full service. We’re what we call member-obsessed here. We’re always worried about our individual subscribers and what they’re experience is. We’re always looking for information and feedback so we can get better and better and just keep delivering an amazing product.

Meredith:
Awesome, love it. Before I mention you off, I did have one more question. When you said earlier in the show that a lot of people have eaten grass-fed beef and just found it to be very tough, I know that’s been my experience a little bit depending on which kinds. I have had some incredible grass-fed beef and then some tough grass-fed beef as well, possibly from dairy cows, which I wouldn’t have thought of. I’m wondering if you have any hints or a good recipe to offer to make that meat really, really moist and juicy?

Mike:
The most important thing on cooking a steak side is just cooking it rarer than you normally would. Going to well-done or something with grass-fed is just not going to do well. We tell people to go to rare, to medium rare in terms of cooking time. If you get a ribeye in your box, four minutes on one side, three minutes on the other, done in plenty of time.

I think one of the things that people—that happen with people who are concerned—grass-fed beef that comes out tougher is people don’t cook it for long enough. I think that’s for beef in general, but a lot of the cuts of beef are you put it in your Instant Pot for a few hours, you put it in the Crock Pot all day, and just keep cooking it because it breaks everything down and you’re going to have a really, really amazing eating experience.

My favorite recipe that we—we do short ribs every once in a while, beef short ribs. You just get short ribs, salt, tomato paste, a little red wine, cook it. Four or five hours and you’ve got—at 225 and you’ve got amazing amazing short ribs.

Meredith:
That sounds good.

Mike:
I’m all about the smallest amount of ingredients possible just so you can taste the meat.

Meredith:
That’s so true. When you have an amazing product, you don’t want to hide it. You just want to enhance it with some flavor but really keep it simple.

Mike:
That’s right.

Meredith:
Awesome, great tips. Alright, viewers and listeners, ButcherBox has an amazing offer for you. If you go to butcherbox.com/drpompa, that’s, if you’re listening, butcherbox.com/drpompa, and you’re going to $10 off your first order and two free grass-fed ribeye steaks. Wonderful offer. We’re so excited to partner with you and help share your product. Thanks so much for what you’re doing and for getting this amazing product out to so many people who wouldn’t have access to it otherwise.

Mike:
Thank you. I really appreciate it.

Dr. Pompa:
Thanks for coming on, Mike. Appreciate it.

Mike:
Thank you.

Meredith:
Awesome. Thanks, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Have a fantastic weekend and we’ll see you next time. Bye-bye.