Transcript of Episode 30: Amalgam Fillings and Mercury Poisoning
With Dr. Daniel Pompa, PSc.D, Warren Phillips, David Asarnow and special guest Dr. Derek Grieco, DDS
Warren: Alright, we are on air. Cellular Healing TV, Episode 30. We have a special guest besides, of course, David and then Dr. Pompa. I didn’t say Dr. David this time, which was new, but welcome to Cellular Healing TV. It’s the first time you’re getting get real answers. Heal the cell, get well. We bring on world changers onto this show, and today we have one of Dr. Pompa’s closest friends. There’s an amazing story here and one of the best holistic dentists in the country, Dr. Derek Grieco. Welcome, Dr. Derek Grieco, David, and Dr. Pompa this morning.
Dr. Grieco: Thank you for having us.
Dr. Pompa: I’m sitting next to Warren today.
Warren: Oh, yeah, yeah. By the way, if you couldn’t tell, Dr. Pompa’s to my right, or yeah, to your—I don’t know, but welcome to the show. So Dr. Pompa, I’m just going to start the interview process here. Again, I gave a brief introduction, but there’s an amazing story here with Dr. Derek Grieco that I believe is going to transform many lives watching this today when it comes to the topic of mercury amalgam fillings, mercury poisoning, dental health. I mean, this guy has a story with you personally that I believe is going to reach deep into people’s hearts, and help set them free when it comes to this topic of mercury poisoning, amalgam fillings, and dental health.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah. I mean, it’s estimated that 70% of all disease starts in the mouth, and that’s a big number. Maybe it’s 60, maybe it’s 80. I don’t know, but even if it were 50%, that’s a massive number. So that’s how important this show really is. I think most dentists acknowledge the fact that bacteria from gum disease, etc., can cause heart attacks and affect the heart, but it is so far beyond that as far as the disease that can start from not just amalgam fillings but root canals, cavitations, in the microbiome that starts in the mouth. And we’ve talked about how important that bacteria is, but we’ve got to tell the story Derek. So you’ve heard me, folks out there, you’ve read my story, and you’ve heard me talk about this dental appointment that changed my life forever. Literally, we would not be sitting here right now if this did not happen. So God does work all things for good. No doubt about it because here I am. But I remember the day, Derek, and I’ll let you tell your version of it too, but you looked at these two back amalgams, and one was cracked, perhaps, and there was some problems. You said, “Let’s get both of those out there, and let’s put a gold filling in.” It sounded like a good plan to me, and you did that. Derek, two days after that I remember calling your office, and saying, “Hey, I don’t feel very well. Something’s going on,” and we both thought that it was the anesthetic. I didn’t take medications, didn’t take drugs, so I, at least, blamed it on the anesthetic and, whatever, moved on. Later that week, I tried to ride my bike. I was left with fatigue. Derek, it went down the road I thought I was over training. Months later, two months later, the fatigue turned to insomnia, irritability. I mean—and then the list went on. I don’t have to repeat it. But it all started—but it wasn’t, unfortunately, ‘til three years, maybe four years, later that I remember the day I called you, and said, “Derek, when did I get that gold filling put in?” You said, “I don’t know. I’ll call you. I’ll call you with the date.” You gave me those dates. That’s when I had my cycle journal there, and looked at when my symptoms started. Really, it was a bright endocrinologist said, “Dan, I think you have mercury poisoning,” and I said, “I did a blood test. I’m okay.” Then he said, “No. Wrong test,” and I did that, the right test, which wasn’t a blood test, and realized that I was, in fact, had a mercury issue. I asked him, “What do you think it started from?” The first thing he said was, “Did you have any dental work done around the time all this started?” I said, “Ah, gosh, I don’t know. I had this gold put in. I don’t remember the date. I’m going to call my buddy, one of my best friends, who did it.” Of course, that’s when it all started. Derek said—do you remember that time? Do you remember that?
Dr. Grieco: Like it was yesterday, Dan, like it was yesterday.
Dr. Pompa:| Yeah. Derek, I brought you after that, of course—I remember bringing you a stack of literature, right, from the World Health Organization, all this stuff.
Dr. Grieco: Right.
Dr. Pompa: Of course, you said you were going to read it just like I would, right? Of course, life goes on. You’re busy. I’m sure you didn’t read it right away, but I don’t remember how many months or a year or so later you called me and invited Merily and I to dinner. You sat down, and you said, “First of all, I want to start. I owe you an apology. I read what you gave me and then some.” You found your own—did your own homework, and you said, “Man, I’m sorry.” I’m like, “Hey, man. It’s okay.” But that changed your practice. Well, tell that part of the story.
Dr. Grieco: Absolutely.
Warren: First, you’re a DMD. I don’t even think I said that. He’s a doctor…
Dr. Grieco: Yeah. DDS, DMD, everyone puts those initials after your name. I’m a general dentist. It depends on which school you went to whether you’re DDS or DMD. It really doesn’t matter. But, anyway, I just want to thank you Dan for loving me enough and for forgiving me through that whole situation because that was instrumental in changing the course of my life and my dental career. The other thing, the other aspect that you said, was you might look at the International of Academy of Oral Medicine and Toxicology because you had found out about that through the dentist that you had gone to to help you here in Pittsburgh. Who’s since now retired. That was a biologic dentist and had been educated in biologic dentistry. So I went to my first course in Florida, and I was actually paralyzed when I came back to my practice because I didn’t want to touch anybody because of the information that I was open to. So that began my journey. That was probably a year, a year and a half, after that you had given me those papers, that whole stack of papers, after we had met. So I remember when we had gone to dinner, I had been to my first meeting, and that’s when I wanted to get together with you. So you were very instrumental in helping along my pathway where I am still learning today and still working towards becoming a better biologic dentist.
Dr. Pompa: Well, I don’t know how many people—it’s scary to change your complete direction. It’s scary to admit you were wrong. It’s scary to have to go back to your patients and talk about how fillings and just drilling out these fillings can be so dangerous because you did it for how many long years? But I know that people respect that, and I know that so many dentists out there, they’re afraid to make that move because what would my patients think? How would I deal with my own psyche, right? That’s a hard decision, man. So I have so much respect for you, and you finally did the homework and the reading. Gosh, if we could just get more dentists to do what you did, it would definitely be a different world. That’s for sure.
Dr. Grieco: Right, the other issue is you spend a $120-$150,000.00. Well, nowadays, it’s $300,000.00 on your education from dental school. So they have to be telling us the right things. How could these be hurting people? How could there be mercury coming out? We were taught that the mercury was bound inside the silver, mercury, copper, and the tin filling material. So it’s really a travesty that this is still being taught in schools, most schools, throughout the country. It’s a shame. The American Dental Association sticks their head in the sand, and they really don’t have any credi…
Warren: Well, we lost him.
-Technical Issues- David: Oh, oh. You know the interesting thing that I’m sitting here listening to this is that it’s both of your destinies and where you are today have been shaped because of this. It’s pretty amazing how two friends—you got sick. He, all of a sudden, changed his path, and you’re on the path that you’re on because of the pain that you went through. It’s amazing how our destinies are shaped in the most—the times that we don’t even think about.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah. It’s true and I have so much respect for Derek because not many people do switch directions, and admit they’re wrong. When that gold filling went in, it—yeah, Warren’s going to get him back on. When that gold filling went in, it causes galvanism. You’ve heard me talk about this in the past. People that have two different metals, those watching this, in your mouth where it could be metal around the bottom of a crown, it could be a titanium post, or a brace, some type of retainer, and fillings, those silver fillings. What happens is is it creates an electrical current that’s called galvanism. That electrical current causes mercury to pour out of those remaining fillings ten times, at least, faster than it normally would. The galvanism of that current alone messes up how the brain works. I can’t tell you, David, how many people have this galvanism going on in their brain. So when I say that dentistry is the cause of many illnesses, that galvanism alone where they’re putting different metals in the mouth, it’s a battery. That’s all a battery is is two opposing metals in an acid, which is your saliva, and it creates current. We can measure the currents in my opinion. You can literally take something that measures current and put it in your mouth. Put it in my mouth right now, or David, yours, or put it in someone who has opposing metals in their mouth, and you’d be amazed. You’d be like, “Oh, my goodness. That cannot be normal.” It’s not. It causes disease. So that alone and then, of course, the mercury that just started pouring off of my remaining fillings, which—look. Amalgam illness is a 30 year or plus illness. Meaning that you have these fillings in for years and the mercury is just bioaccumulating and stockpiling the mercury vapor. Where? In the brain is where the studies show. So one of the other questions, I can’t wait to get Derek back on, is what’s the ADA’s rationale these days, right? Because they can no longer say that the mercury is bound up in that filling. He’s right. That used to—that’s what they said. I’ve watched them make the shift from that claim to the new claim of, “Well, yes, it does come off the fillings, but it’s in too small of amounts to matter.” That it flies in the face of—even the World Health Organization now says it flies in the face of all these other countries that are banning it, putting bans on it. Derek, are you back on? Can you hear me?
Warren: Yes, he is.
Dr. Grieco: Yeah. I’m sorry about that. I don’t know what happened.
Dr. Pompa: I guess the question I have for you is, what’s the ADA’s rationale now? I mean, this stuff, Derek, is considered hazardous waste before it goes into your mouth, Schedule II hazard. When it’s in your mouth, they say it’s safe still, right? They say that now that just leach is too small to matter, but when it comes out of the mouth, it’s handled as hazardous waste. Every year before Congress, almost every year, it comes up that let’s call this stuff what it is when it’s in your mouth, and then, according to OSHA, hazardous waste. But they know if they let that go through, it changes a lot. What’s your feeling on that?
Dr. Grieco: Yeah. That’s true, and they have to be very careful because the litigation factor in our country. So this could be a huge, huge loss settlement because—bigger than the tobacco settlement because they would sue every dentist, every dental manufacturer. The ADA would be gone. So it would be a widespread litigation issue, and not to mention, a huge panic from patients that have had silver mercury fillings in their mouth, that have never had silver mercury fillings in their mouth. You know Boyd Haley, Dr. Boyd Haley from Kentucky? He has testified before Congress, with the ADA. He had stacks and stacks of information and research on mercury, and what it does to the body, neural tissue, different systems of the body. The ADA didn’t have any credible evidence of the safety. They took a break. When they came back, the ADA representative was gone, wasn’t even there to continue testifying. So there’s really—they really don’t have any—have not come out and said anything about anything regarding the safety or the danger of mercury in the mouth for that specific reason, I believe. It’s because of the widespread litigation that would happen. It’s been banned in Europe, and California comes out and has you have to give it to your patient. That you can’t use it on kids or pregnant women, but why is it okay to use it on everybody else?
Warren: It’s just crazy.
Dr. Pompa: When we look at the environmental movement in the United States, there’s greater protection there. One adult size filling, I forget, maybe it’s 750 micrograms of mercury in that one filling, but it’s estimated that it pollutes a 20 acre lake. So wait a minute. It pollutes a 20 acre lake and it can kill the bacteria. Ultimately, the algae, the fish, and disrupt that microbiome or ecosystem. Imagine what four fillings is doing in our mouth, in our body, in our ecosystem. I mean, folks, there’s greater protection there than in our own body. Right on the amalgam—I wish you had a bottle of amalgam there just to show people, but the skull and crossbones are on it, right? I mean, with warnings not to let children play with it, but yet we’re still putting it in their mouths, Derek?
Dr. Grieco: Yeah. It’s crazy. Even if you look at the physical properties of mercury, I believe a melting point is between 60 and 70 degrees; your mouth is 98.6; you’re constantly thermocoupling between hot and cold foods that you eat. So there’s off-gassing happening all the time, when your teeth come together, off-gassing. So I don’t know how they can—they don’t have any evidence or any—can’t say that there is some concern with the mercury silver fillings that dentists are using today.
Dr. Pompa: Well, Derek, give the watching audience, the listening audience, just some ideas of why it’s so important to take this stuff out correctly for them. Of course, I have a pre-protocol where before you even get them out we put somebody on—for one month, we open up their detox pathways, and then, I want you to speak about some of the things that need to be done during a visit. Now and just for you as well, not just for the patient, because dentistry has the highest rates of neurodegenerative conditions, depression, I mean, the list goes on.
Dr. Grieco: Suicide.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, exactly, suicide.
Dr. Grieco: Highest divorce rate, highest drug addiction rate.
Dr. Pompa: Yeah, divorce rate or drug addiction. So, I mean, the dentist is not immune to what’s happening, but that’s the importance for the dentist and for the patient of how to do the proper removal. So describe that a little bit. Dr.
Grieco: Well, that’s great. I give all the credit to Dr. Hal Huggins who I’ve been trained by, and his right hand person, Dr. Blanche Grube, who I just spent a week with in Scranton. I help her with her practice occasionally. So that’s been a blessing to learn hands-on with her. But when you’re looking at treating a patient, it’s very important, like Dan said, that you’re preoperatively treated with liver and kidney and making sure your digestive system is working properly because this is an insult to your system. No matter how safe we try to be.
Dr. Pompa: Absolutely.
Dr. Grieco: So with our procedure, we use—first of all, we give activated charcoal beforehand, before the visit, as we’re giving the anesthetic. Secondly, we cover the patient, fully draped with sterile clothing, and then we use a rubber dam, which covers their whole mouth, oxygen mask that covers their face so they’re breathing 100% oxygen, and outer protection. We also cover their hair as well. So we basically cover their whole body. The only thing that’s exposed is their mouth, and it has a rubber, non-latex covering. We use a high-speed suction, a lot of water, and we have an IQAir filter that we put right by their face. We also have negative ion exchange airflow machine that captures any mercury particulate that’s coming off of the filling in the air. So that’s very important to be treated. The fillings, if you’re sedated, you can cross the midline. If you’re not sedated, you can only do one-half of the mouth at the time, and you have to worry about the charges of the fillings. So you want to take the highest negative charged fillings out first. But that’s basically the procedure. It’s not rocket science, but it’s easy to do, and it protects your patients and yourself greatly. We wear respiratory masks for safety. We have—my assistant and I are fully covered and clothed. Once we take out all the mercury silver filling, we completely disrobe. We completely clean the patient, change everything. Change the rubber dam, take everything out. Throw everything away in a biohazard. Get it out of the room. Then we proceed with restoring the patient with a bio compatible material that’s good for their body that we’ve tested them for afterwards. That’s another key issue. You can’t throw any material in somebody’s body, in somebody’s tooth, because their body can react to it.
Dr. Pompa: Just hearing that procedure, I hope our watchers here just really appreciate how dangerous it is. How many people do I see that they tell the story? They got their amalgams out, and either some get sick right away because they just breathed all the vapor—they’re sitting there drilling the filling, heating it up, mercury vapor going right up their nose, which you protected against, and they wonder why things are not normal, or some people get them out and they have what I call a honeymoon period where they actually feel somewhat better, or they fall off the planet six to nine months later. I think the honeymoon period, Derek, this galvanism that often is in people’s mouth with opposing metals, you take that current away people feel better. I remember sleeping through my nights after that occurred. But then it doesn’t last because once those fillings are gone, now the mercury just starts moving out of the body. It creates what I call “the crazies”, and folks, if you have—I wrote three articles on this. Go to my website and you’ll see under Resources, Articles. I guess there’s even a place now that says Articles. You will see—there’s three parts, When Detox Becomes Dangerous: Part 1, Part 2, and Part 3. Watch the videos. More importantly, read the articles because a lot of these details are in there. Four days after the last filling comes out, it is so important to start the proper procedure because, otherwise, your body is going to start mobilizing these metals, and it really prevents you from that happening. So, Derek, I mean, you might want to speak to some other things. I definitely want you to speak to root canals, the dangers of root canals. Because so many people that I see they get very, very sick. Cancer, unexplained illnesses, because of root canals as well.
Warren: Before we just jump into that, something just hit me hard because I have a toxicology background. That’s my previous—I have a Master Degree in Toxicology Chemistry, and previously, this is what I did in the environment. So we would spend millions of dollars, literally, probably cleaning up the amount of a mercury amalgam filling that’s in maybe three or four fillings. We’d literally spend a million dollar cleanup cleaning up. We’d test the soil, and if it’s from an abandon mine or whether it’s mercury, we’d look for that element. Arsenic, lead, of course, those things as well, but if we found high levels of mercury, we had to clean it up, or if there was a small mercury spill at an industrial facility, I mean, all—we’d pull all punches. You wore the same garb and gear that you have to wear, and I had to go in and expose myself. There’s still a level of exposure that you still get. Even with your—it’s called PPE, personal protective equipment. MSA is probably the company I know. The filters, I’ve bought them myself. I’ve done mercury cleanup. It comes in different forms, but it’s extremely hazardous when you’re drilling on it. So I believe Derek needs to be thanked, and every dentist that goes in and does an environmental cleanup, essentially, in someone’s mouth, that are being poisoned and killed, putting his own health at risk to save lives. So you really are putting your own self at risk. I quit that job because it was making me sick.
Dr. Pompa: He got sick. Yeah. He got sick.
Warren: With PPE and protective equipment. Maybe God’s blessed you with the right genetics to help move some of this mercury out, but you are putting yourself at risk for the betterment of humanity and every dentist that does this needs to be thanked. So if you know your dentist that’s doing this, you need to go and shake his hand. Thank you for risking your life every day cleaning up toxic mouths across the country. So, Derek, thank you.
Dr. Grieco: Well, I just thank—I just pray God’s protection over me every day, and I rely on Him totally for that. But we’re not called to be stupid and naïve either. But on the other extent, dentists are one of the biggest polluters of the environment if they’re not capturing and filtering the amalgam that they’re taking out of someone’s mouth. So your dental supplier can setup your suction unit with an amalgam mercury trap that’s not very expensive, easy to do. You unscrew it after every day, you tighten it up, and then you put in the biohazards, and they come and pick it up for you. So it’s an easy thing to do to keep that from going into the water systems of your local communities.
Warren: We’ve tested those outflows, and they’re—the levels are a thousand times the water that flows into the sewer system. I worked at Federal Aviation onsite in Spokane. But I didn’t believe this, honestly, Derek, when I first found out about it with my background. It was like, there’s no way. Actually, when I did the test, the doctors, they had a heavy metal challenge, I actually sent out another sample of that, because I didn’t believe the company, to another laboratory to prove it, and I also called the laboratory to—and this is how I found out about dental offices polluting the environment. They’re like, “Oh, yeah.” If it’s safe, then why do I see such high amounts of mercury when we test the waters that are the outflow of dental offices? Because on aviation bases, government sites, that stuff is regulated, and it looks like it’s not on general dentistry. But let’s move on.
Dr. Grieco: Alright, good. To your question, to your point, Dan, about root canals, I’ve had a lot of my patients that have root canals. So I’m on a slippery slope here, and “Hey, Dr. Grieco, you recommended me two root canals ten years ago. Now you’re”—and I said, “Well, now that I’m learning more, I’m very cautious of”—I have to give my patients the option of a root canal, but I also have to educate them in the pros and cons of these procedures that we recommend. But the evidence of root canal toxicity is—started back with Dr. Weston Price back in the 1920’s and 30’s. His own son died after he did a root canal on his front tooth. He was suspicious of that procedure. So he implanted his son’s extracted front tooth into a rabbit, and the rabbit died of heart disease, heart attack, just like his son did. He did that to 60 other rabbits, and they all died of the same ailment. So that was the first—back in the 20’s and 30’s. Dr. George Meinig, the developer and the founder of the American Endodontics Society, before he died, he wrote a book denouncing and speaking against root canals. He was the founder of the root canal, the American Endodontics Society. Dr. George Meinig, if you wanted to look him up, but in my research—and Dr. Boyd Haley has been instrumental at the University of Kentucky of opening my eyes in the toxic bacteria surrounding root canal teeth. That toxic bacteria causes—well, always, the main teeth pulling is inflammation, body inflammation. So the disease process in the body is all based on inflammation. We’re finding that root canal teeth are one of the major contributors to different disease processes in the body. So a lot of times, when we’re doing a revision on a patient, we recommend they have their root canal teeth taken out, not only with the mercury silver fillings, and that brings up the other issue of cavitations in the jaw bone, which has similar bacteria, toxic bacteria, that the root canal teeth carry. So it’s a big issue, and there’s a lot controversy behind it because there’s over probably 70, 60-70 million root canals done in our country every year. So it’s huge. So it’s definitely a part of the disease processes that’s going on in our society today.
Dr. Pompa: I know Boyd Haley, from his own research, they were sending him and his staff what is called “safe” extracted root canals. Meaning that there was no pain, right? There was no pain, but they had a root canal. They were taking them, extracting them, and sending them to his staff. They found anaerobic bacteria in high levels on every one. So he came to the conclusion that there is no “safe” root canal. I mean, speak to that. Because I think you said it right. There’s so much controversy here, right? There’s many biological safe dentists who feel they can make one safe. There’s many who stand on the other side and say it’s impossible to make one safe because of these thousands of microtubules that hold these anaerobic bacteria. Well, what’s your opinion? I mean, there’s…
Dr. Grieco: I mean, the buzz words of using lasers for root canals now and oxygen ozone therapy for root canals. Dr. Phil Mollica, a fantastic dentist, one of the pioneers on the ozone therapy in our country, teaches many dentists every year about ozone therapy. He also says that it’s—he advocates root canals with ozone therapy. Well, that’s great. It’s sterile, but how long does it stay sterile? There’s a matter of time before those bacteria work back into those little microtubules, and they find a place to live. So I’d be interested to hear his thoughts on that long-term. But like Dr. Boyd Haley said, “There’s no safe root canal for the long-term.” You can sterilize it for a little bit. Maybe 34 hours, 24-36 hours maybe, but after that, who knows what happens with the bacteria getting back in?
Dr. Pompa: Yeah. No doubt. I mean, I know that people are out there saying right now, “What are my options,” right? I always say that there’s three options, really. Take the root canal out and leave a gap, which most people don’t want that. Get a Maryland-type of bridge that spans the front tooth and the back tooth, non-metallic, of course, ceramic, or an implant. Then we run into titanium things versus ceramic. So speak to some of those options right there.
Dr. Grieco: Yeah. If it’s a single tooth, you’re losing a single tooth, the first thing that we recommend is we put a little valve clasp, little partial in, a little flexible partial. First and foremost, always, we want to make sure it’s biologically compatible with the patient. I want to make that a key point.
Warren: I mean, that’s just a blood test that you run on your patient.
Dr. Grieco: Blood test. Sometimes patients will do muscle testing through their practitioner and the more that I’m learning about that, I think that’s adequate. But if you really want to be scientific and really want to know, a blood test…