Joining me today is Dr. Kelly Brogan, holistic psychiatrist, NY times bestselling author, and founder of the vital life project, an online healing program and membership community. She specializes in root-cause resolutions to psychiatric syndromes and she’s here to discuss why this current moment in time is an opportunity to tap into the root of our own mental and physical health – both suffering from our current virus-induced lifestyle.
More about Kelly Brogan:
Kelly Brogan, M.D. is a holistic psychiatrist, author of the NY Times Bestselling book, A Mind of Your Own, Own Your Self, the children’s book, A Time For Rain, and co-editor of the landmark textbook, Integrative Therapies for Depression. She is the founder of the online healing program Vital Mind Reset, and the membership community, Vital Life Project. She completed her psychiatric training and fellowship at NYU Medical Center after graduating from Cornell University Medical College, and has a B.S. from M.I.T. in Systems Neuroscience. She is specialized in a root-cause resolution approach to psychiatric syndromes and symptoms.
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Transcript:
Dr. Pompa:
Anxiety, suicides, fear, sleepless nights, all on the rise massively with this pandemic, I brought an expert on because I feel the tug even myself, and I had to really address it from a deep root issue. You know me, right? I have to get to the causative factors. What are we doing about this problem? This answer is going to surprise you. Dr. Kelly in this episode has written a #1 best-seller. I saw her at a seminar, and I said, man, I have to interview her and bring you what I heard her say. This episode goes beyond even what we’re facing now, but what she points out is this is a great opportunity to really tap in to make ourselves better. I’m telling you, there is just amazing, amazing information here that you’re going to want to hear and you’re going to probably end up sending it to all of your family members and friends. Watch.
Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith, and today we welcome Dr. Kelly Brogan. Dr. Brogan is a holistic psychiatrist, New York Times best-selling author, and she’s the founder of the Vital Life Project, an online healing program and membership community. She specializes in root cause-resolutions to psychiatric syndromes, and she’s here today to discuss why this current moment in time is an opportunity to tap into the root of our own mental and physical health. Let’s get started and welcome Dr. Kelly Brogan and, of course, Dr. Pompa. Welcome, both of you.
Dr. Brogan:
Thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Dr. Pompa:
Kelly, I had the pleasure of hearing you speak at a seminar recently, and everything you brought up laid heavy on my heart. I said to myself, finally, someone is acknowledging what I intuitively knew in my heart. I don’t have the background in what you do to understand the psychology of what’s going through people or the psychology that lockdowns, masks, and everything that we’re going through, the fear from this being created by media in every aspect from social media, mainstream media. I’ve never seen anything like it. I think everyone would agree with that. I’ve even done some videos where my absolute concern is the rising numbers of suicide, anxiety. I just did a video this morning on Facebook about anxiety. I’ve never seen anything like it. I think anxiety was escalating anyway and now at an all-time high, sleep problems.
My thing is, gosh, I feel like part of me has to bring an answer, but there’s a psychology here deeper than I feel like I can address. That’s why you’re here, so let’s dig in. Let’s dig into this topic. We both feel that this is—there’s something to do, and we’re going to discuss that, that our family members and ourselves don’t have to fall victim to these statistics. Let’s talk about it a little bit. What the heck is going on in the world right now?
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, I mean, I love the quote from Christian Murdy that “it is no sign of health to be well-adapted to a profoundly sick society.” The statistical references you just made and I’m sure your lived experience and mine that reflects a deep disturbance, how much struggle we are in the midst of but it’s like a slow boil isn’t it right now? It’s like under the cover of a sleepy haze that something very terrible is happening, and things are awry and so that we would express that through our symptoms, that we would have insomnia, that we would feel hopeless, that we would have trouble concentrating, that we would have trouble just even being in our skin, that we would have digestive symptoms or joint pain. This is the wise expression. That’s why I love speaking to and collaborating with chiropractors is because I know that vitalism is part and parcel of the way that you see the world, and as a recovering MD, I had to stumble upon that philosophy in order to validate my deep deeply buried intuition that the body has mistake free wisdom and that symptoms are meaningful ways of speaking to us about us. My symptoms are my lesser conscious self bringing to awareness me. Learning the language of myself is responding…
Dr. Pompa:
So many people are just covering them instead of saying, huh, what is my body trying to tell me?
Dr. Brogan:
Of course, because we are about 300 years into the enculturation around our bodies as separate from our spirit. The body is this flesh suit that we have to manage into submission. Once in a while, it creates a nuisance, or it threatens to shut down altogether, and we have to recruit the authority of the priesthood. I’ll use these terms related to religion because I do at this point see conventional medicine as a religion. It is not only that. It’s an orthodoxy because there is not any room for any other belief systems. If we were free to practice health according to our own belief systems, then we would not see forced psychiatric injections. We wouldn’t see medical kidnapping for refusal of chemotherapy, and we certainly wouldn’t see mandates of vaccines and other “health interventions.”
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I wouldn’t be fearful of saying certain words to get this video shut down.
Dr. Brogan:
It’s all of the tyrannical signs and symbols are here for us to observe, but it’s medical tyranny that we are dealing with. That’s why I feel like I have a special capacity to comment because I have spent many years trying to understand how it is that we can fall for these lies, how it is that we could possibly betray ourselves and give our power away to individuals, well-meaning doctors, and systems that actually don’t define health the same way that we do. Maybe they define health as the absence of death, but that’s not how you and I define health. We have a totally different rubric that involves vitality. It involves self-discovery, and it involves feeling safe because you generate within yourself those conditions of safety. You don’t need other people to accommodate your fears.
That’s a big part of what’s happening interpersonally and psychosocially right now is that we have lost sight of the fact that it is not our obligation to accommodate the fears of others or the weakness of others, right? If you do that for one fear, then we should be doing it for all. What about people who are afraid of dogs or people who are allergic to peanuts or whatever?
Dr. Pompa:
We’re tapping into this social pressure that now exists to wear a mask, not to wear a mask, to stay away from people. Again, there’s a lot of debate about all of these things: mask, distancing. The Mount Sinai study just came out and said it didn’t really do anything. How come social media—that was a military study, very accurate. The Cochrane Collaboration just looked at it. My point is is that we can debate it every way, but what you’re saying is there’s now this responsibility to deal with other people’s fears. From the very beginning, I and my family were like we want to get this virus. We’re not going to avoid it. I would rather be exposed.
Now, again, I want to be very clear. There are certain groups that I would be the first to say, yeah, you might not want to get this so being very cautious. Me, I realize that, in fact, viruses are our communication with our environments. It’s very important to get them, and they actually build health. I knew that it was just a matter of time before I had to be exposed. Okay, that’s my paradigm. It’s like so I’m not operating in fear but other people are. Is it my responsibility then to do all this to what degree to deal with their fears? I think you’re saying where do we draw the line?
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, and humans are natively compassionate. We are good at our baseline. When compassion and care for others has to be coerced, there should be a red flag that’s raised that says this is not about health. This is about control of a population. The fear of a virus, of an invisible enemy, not unlike a terrorist, the invisible enemy that is being leveraged to exercise increasingly centralized control over a population, that is in my opinion what’s happening. I have dug very, very deep into the history of germ theory, into the role that germ theory has played in conventional medicine, and the fear of infection and the ways in which that is—it’s the perfect smokescreen for control of individuals and mandating public health interventions. It’s for the greater good.
Now, we also can look at many populations in human history who have worked with the concept of the greater good to the great detriment of a vast majority of the compliant population, so that’s why I’m a huge believer. Not only because I personally no longer believe in germ theory. I no longer believe in contagion and infection as being random assaults on the immune system, which is like this army out to defend your body. I believe that microbes are bystanders, what are so-called saprotrophs that help to clean up and restructure tissues that are otherwise poisoned largely by environmental exposures, sometimes psychic exposures and traumas but that we live in harmony with the natural world. There aren’t exceptions.
Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely, okay, stop right there because we both hit on the fact that we have a different major premise than many, many people. I think, when you say that, when people hear you say, well, I don’t necessarily believe in the germ theory, they’d be like, well, what do you mean by that?
Dr. Brogan:
What do you mean, yeah?
Dr. Pompa:
Of course, I would say the same. I don’t believe in the germ theory, but what do we mean? This is a major premise for us, so therefore, all of our decisions, where would I come up with right when this virus—even, by the way, when I—when we, all the experts, thought this was going to be way more deadly—we were talking about, oh, my gosh, big, big numbers. I still was looking to get the virus. Nobody wants to be sick, but ultimately, I looked at it very differently. I definitely wasn’t functioning in a fear mode. That’s my major premise.
What is that major premise? Back in the day, we can talk about Louie Pasteur and Koch and that great debate. You might want to hit on this. People have to understand what we mean by that, how you and I can just embrace these microbes, and everyone else is running in fear. There’s two groups out there, the fear group and the non-fear group. I believe it is this major premise that somehow was instilled in us as kids perhaps, maybe later, but is determining whether we’re in fear or not. Then we’ll move out of this and talk about some of the…
Dr. Brogan:
Absolutely, it’s such an important point, and thank you for pushing for clarification because this is the conceptual shift that can set you free. I have not been afraid of illness for many, many, many years. I don’t ever, ever worry. I think a lot of parents have had the lived experience of sharing a cup with their snotty, coughing, puking kid and been totally fine, and they know that their immune system is not Fort Knox. They’ve been stressed out. They’ve maybe not been eating great, but somehow they still just didn’t get sick. There are these holes in the theory, but these holes in the theory disprove the theory. If there are exceptions to a theory, then it’s time to go back to the…
Dr. Pompa:
Just to be clear, the germ theory is you get exposed to a germ, and you get sick.
Dr. Brogan:
It’s exposure that is the vector of causality. It’s simply a matter of exposure. Then there’s this secondary corollary that says the more vulnerable you are the more you can catch the things, the more you will. I understand because I used to think that way. Why when you see five people in a household get sick, or five kids in a class, or whatever it’s the obvious assumption that something is spreading between them.
Now, my husband Sayer Ji and I have had many, many debates about this topic because he’s done a deep dive into the concept of exosomes, which is a really important other lens to look through. Perhaps, as we’ve come to agree, there is such a thing as the sharing of important genetic material between bodies. That there is such a thing as there being an alarm signal that some may be calling a virus that is passed from one body to another. However, is it benevolent, or is it malevolent? Is it there to harm you and take advantage of you like some energetic parasite, or is it actually a means of like the mycelium beneath the soil and the way the trees communicate with each other when there is scarcity of a resource, or there’s a draught, or whatever to shore up defenses? Is it a means interpersonally, interdependently of sounding an alarm to signal that there is a need for detox?
The way that we can misunderstand infection is chiefly to not take into account the role of environment and lifestyle. Then we don’t see that the body knows what it’s doing, and that so-called sickness and infection, what is it? It’s sneezing, coughing, sweating, diarrhea, vomiting. It’s the expulsion of cellular toxicity. It is the evidence that your body knows when you’re poisoned how to resolve and recalibrate into homeostasis.
Now, what are the poisons? There are many in our unregulated industry with over 100,000 unstudied toxicants and chemicals dumped and polluted all over this planet, glyphosate in our rainwater, fluoride in our water supply. The electromagnetic radiation in pollution that’s—essentially, we’re bathing in at all times. Then there’s the psychological and psychic pollution that we often self-incur. The list is very long, and that doesn’t even include our diets and our lack of exercise and all the rest of it.
What is this body meant to do? How does it purge the burden of toxicity that has accumulated over time? Does it do so by self-asphyxiating and injecting more poisons? What logical sense does that make? It only makes sense if this is a mechanical, robotic suit that needs to be kept up through additional infrastructural machinery. Most of us who have engaged in lifestyle-based healing or in any interest in the impact of our daily choices on our lived experience know that that can’t possibly be the case, that health is not achieved through fear-based so-called preventive medicine.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, so what you’re saying is, hey, look, we can’t just run from these things. There’s so many other factors, including our lifestyle, environment, etc., and arguably, what’s taken out of the equation just with the germ theory is the fact that our bodies—and you said it. That would all be great if we were mechanistic machines, but we’re not. We’re vitalistic organisms that adapt. There’s the conversation that never happens. We as humans, vitalistic humans with an innate intelligence, get stronger. How? Gets better, how (adaptation)? It wants to survive, so therefore, it’s exposed to something. Now it has to adapt, and when you adapt, you become stronger and stronger.
Of course, that’s what I thought. Right away I said, man, I want this because I want my body to adapt, whether I get sick or not. I know this isn’t going away anytime soon. Exercise, you do a force—it hurts at the time. It’s painful, but yet you get stronger when you adapt. We can go through many, many examples, hot, cold, etc. The fact of the matter is is adaptation is really the difference of a vitalistic body and a mechanistic body, and through that adaptation is why the germ theory just by itself doesn’t hold up.
Arguably, early on, when this whole thing started, experts said, look, we cannot change the number of people in the end who are going to be exposed to this. It has to hit what we call herd immunity, so many people, whether that’s 70% of the population. Some feel it’s 80 now, whatever it is, but the fact of the matter is is they said all we can do is flatten the curve so our hospitals don’t get overwhelmed. I think many logical people said, okay, that sounds reasonable. I thought, okay, that’s a great idea. Now, where did that go, Dr. Kelly, meaning that now all of a sudden it’s like we’re—literally, it’s been a—now it’s a case epidemic here, a casedemic. It’s like death rates are arguably dropping because our bodies are figuring it out. Our bodies are adapting, and I would argue even the way we’re dealing with it, treating it is better. The fact of the matter is is that what happened to herd immunity? They all made a point of saying it hasn’t—what happened, Kelly? It’s gone.
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, that so-called cognitive dissidence, which is the introduction of conflictual material deliberately to induce a state of confused helplessness, it’s a part of this whole psychological operation that people hear Fauci say one thing and then say another. Then the WHO says this and says that. It’s a part of getting people to the point where they throw up their hands, and they don’t even have an opinion any longer. They just surrender to what’s happening, and that is architected. None of it makes any sense. I mean, the lapses in logic are so profound that I’ve noticed recently that people are digging their heels in in a new way, particularly around mask wearing, that there’s more shaming of non-maskers and more of this territorial like how dare you kind of energy. I imagine that it’s been many, many, many months where they have been self-violating in compliance with this agenda. It doesn’t make sense to them on a conscious level, so they have to declare their allegiance, maybe even more strongly. Otherwise, this is how we resolve cognitive dissidence. We pick a side and exclude all of the inconvenient information that would challenge that side.
A lot of this and you’ve heard me speak about this I feel doesn’t have to do with information. It has to do with our trauma responses, and it has to do with the ways in which we are conditioned to either comply with authority and specifically what I call parentified authority. I reference it as mommy medicine and daddy government or defy. Those are two sides of the same coin. I am a defy.
Dr. Pompa:
I’m a defier. I am. I see it, and I’m like, uh-uh, no. Then there’s the people they call the “Karens” that run around not—I mean, they run around telling on people. I mean, what’s the psychology there? My whole brain can’t even go there. I can’t even imagine. I just go live life the way you want to live it. If I’m in that much fear, I’ll stay home. I’m not going to run around telling other people how to live their life. I mean, what’s going on with the Karen philosophy?
Dr. Brogan:
It’s the tattling toddler, right?
Dr. Pompa:
Okay, all right, it’s this…
Dr. Brogan:
We idealize our parents. Our parents may abuse us, neglect us, abandon us, and there is still that little child that says one day you’ll love me correctly. One day I know you will, and I’m going to wait and never ever ever leave you until you do. Then we’re supposed to emancipate, and we’re supposed to adult. Part of that adulting process is recognizing that we were a merger as a child should be for survival. Now we have to extricate all that we are as an independent individual and declare our I am. Declare who we are as distinct from our parents, and we have to go it on our own because our parents are not coming with us on our adult life journey.
That emancipation into sovereignty is something that most of us have not done. As a collective, we’ve not done that. We are still in these child-like psychological realms, and I say it’s either the Karen, the idealized compliance, or it’s the defiant rebel. Unfortunately, both of those still orient around authority as if it has the power, but that’s an illusion. It’s an illusion because we are already sovereign. We already have the power that we think we need to in protests and petitions and whatever else beg for from the authority that we ourselves have infused with the power. We already have it, and so if each individual begins to orient around their sovereignty, orient around their reclamation of that power on these different levels, medical, nutritional, financial, educational, eventually I think there will be a tipping point where there is a new experience of what governance is actually about. There will be a reinstallation of morality as a compass.
When you follow orders without checking with yourself and deeply interrogating whether those orders are consistent with your moral compass, that is how evil things happen. That’s how the Holocaust happened. It was good people following orders. Without that mass compliance, these things don’t go down. They’re just hatched ideas that wither because they don’t have the vital force of people who otherwise would never comply with what they’re being asked to do if they weren’t afraid. Until and if we understand that it’s our job to take personal responsibility, that it’s no one else’s job to make us feel safe, including the government, including law enforcement, it’s actually our—it’s an inside job to create the conditions of safety for your own life, for your own body. We won’t see it for what it is. That’s why, if we just take the word from mainstream media of what’s happening, we can be left so utterly confused that there’s no hope of ever getting to the point where you’re deeply investigating what your role is.
I don’t know if you know that parable of all the blind men feeling the elephant and different parts. It’s like one blind man’s feeling the trunk and one is feeling the back and one is feeling a leg. They’re all trying to talk about what it is that they’re feeling. One’s like, oh, it’s a rope, or it’s a table, or it’s a tree trunk. We’re in that position. I’m in the camp that is like many who are issuing FOIA requests that is saying, no, actually, this virus has never been isolated or purified. I haven’t seen scientific evidence that it actually exists. Not to mention evidence that it’s actually a causal vector of pathology.
That’s how much I want to say hold on a minute. What are we even talking about? Have the basic scientific premises and criteria being fulfilled for us to even say things like I got COVID or this many people are dying from it or not dying from it? We know about the death certificate manipulation that’s been done in service of the casedemic and the fact that PCR tests are being used when the inventor himself said they should never be—this should never be used for diagnostics. What are we talking about? Can we zoom out here?
We can’t zoom out if we’re arrested in a state of fear that is induced by an authority that we trust, so there’s a rupture that has to happen. In my clinical practice, I’ve exclusively worked with women who’ve experienced that rupture with the medical system. That’s why they’re able to see, wow, I was being abused by the system, and now I can choose differently because I understand that I don’t share values with this system. If I give my consent, I will be violated, and I will have participated in my own violation. This rupture is very disorienting, though. There’s a terrain you have to traverse that it’s like nothing you’ve ever seen before. If you think that government is to be trusted and you think that medicine has basic principles of wellness and care for other humans at the core of it and you think that the media would never really spin theater for you and you get to a point where you say none of that is actually true, then you live in a world where you’re like, huh, am I on my own? No one is here to make sense of this for me? No one is here to protect me?
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, some of us decide—people go one way or the other, the social media, mainstream media, and both have their issues. Social media, a lot of this stuff gets going, and people get sucked in. Then mainstream media has their pitfalls in what they’re saying and doing. What you’re saying is that people have to grab on to something, otherwise they feel alone. They don’t have anything, and that’s a bad, scary place for a human.
Gosh, there’s so much here. It’s like to un-package this is just—it’s beyond me. I so want people not be in a state of fear. Me as someone who cares about people’s health and bringing them information, it’s like, okay, how do we break people out of this? That’s why I pulled back into the major premise. Again, with the risk of getting this shut down, you really do believe and many people do that there is a bigger agenda or people are taking advantage of the fear, creating it more to drive their agenda. I think most people watching this believe there’s a one world order agenda. There’s a lot around that. We could talk about Bill Gates, what he’s doing with vaccinations and this whole thing.
Of course, you know better than I that fear is absolutely the way to—again, you already made that point. Where’s it going to end? I mean, honestly, what’s your opinion? Now, this is only your opinion. You don’t have a crystal ball, and it’s never what we think. I mean, I guess what I’m saying is, if we looked at two scenarios, one being how does it end good and another being maybe it doesn’t end as good, but maybe you should examine both of those. Then what can we do to end good? Okay, there you go.
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, there’s another parable. It’s a Chinese parable. It’s basically about this farmer. There are all these little scenarios that come into his life, including his son breaking his leg and his horses being stolen. Every single time, the neighbors come to his house, and they express either excitement over the results of good things that happened, “good things,” excitement, or concern, or dismay, or whatever. Every time he says, well, maybe. It’s this idea that what looks “good” may actually turn out to be a great downfall, and what looks bad may be exactly what is needed to liberate us to more expansive experiences of joy and embodiment and vitality.
Dr. Pompa:
That’s another point. It’s not what you think. It’s never what you think. Okay, go ahead.
Dr. Brogan:
At this point, I am no longer naïve enough to take the bait of suggesting that I had any idea what is meant to happen. I know that as a lover of truth it brings me to an inner disturbance when I see how many people are captured, and I feel in a minority.
Dr. Pompa:
Me too. I feel the same exact way.
Dr. Brogan:
Right, but it’s a story. It’s a story I tell myself, and then I am brought into the same resonance of fear and helplessness that you’re in.
Dr. Pompa:
I even feel irritation.
Dr. Brogan:
Right, and anger, well, they feel that too.
Dr. Pompa:
You go through all of those emotions. Either way, it’s creating an emotion that’s probably not good, and yet I know. Okay, so go ahead.
Dr. Brogan:
I’m also not a believer in spiritual bypass. I am not a positive psychology type of gal. Just personally, it doesn’t work for me. I know that you got to get into the mud to find the lotus. When I say get into the mud, what I mean is that this is an incredible opportunity to do the work, the work of adulting, the work of reclaiming all of that projected shadow, and the work of integrity. When I say projected shadow, an example is that I have—over the course of my activism career and professional clinical career, I have fallen prey to vilifying the conventional medical system, the FDA, the government, and all the rest. That’s problematic because there is a dispassionate way to generate awareness that does not involve finger pointing, blaming, and ultimately implying that I am a victim or that anyone is a victim.
The truth is that what I judge is a part of me that I have not learned to love. I believe that. Then I can turn the mirror and look at myself and say how am I being hierarchical, being authoritative, being controlling, being coercive, being manipulative? How am I knowing it all and insisting that other comply with my perspective? In my spiritual process, I have found many, many ways in my own life, in my public work that I am those things and I do those things. First of all, accept that that’s true but then also to find other ways to express myself to trust, to respect others, to exercise compassion, all these things. That is the healing. Then that out there won’t have the power over me that it will have if I am rejecting that same part within me.
Dr. Pompa:
I mean, do we have to figure out what that part is? You’re right; when I get that emotion, I realize that has control over me. I intuitively know that’s not good. That shouldn’t even make me—I should just forget about it, but I’m a fixer, probably something from my childhood, right?
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah.
Dr. Pompa:
It’s like I want to fix. Yeah, we’ll analyze me later.
Dr. Brogan:
It’s very common. That’s a big point of—if I were to give any guidance, it would be to say everyone has their own journey. It is not your job; it’s not my job; it’s not his job; it’s not her job to bring anyone to the light, bring anyone to the truth. Declare your truth. Be unafraid to show up as yourself. I call it strong spine, soft heart. Know who you are. Know what your boundaries are. Know what your no is, but then allow everyone to have their experience.
Dr. Pompa:
Could it lead to just do nothing, and then we don’t make a difference at all?
Dr. Brogan:
No, there’s a lot to do. There’s a lot to do. I’m a big international rallier. I love a mission, and I love to be on the same page.
Dr. Pompa:
Me too.
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, so that’s what comes naturally to me. However, the real thing to do, the real work in my opinion is inner work and it’s interpersonal work. Where in your life do you have tension in a relationship? All of those parasitic dynamics, codependent dynamics, dysfunctional toxic dynamics are being smoked out. They hold pearls of our disempowerment and are consenting to neglecting and otherwise enabling these dysfunctional relationships that then ripple forward to the greater collective to create a shared health. That’s what’s going on.
If we all were doing the inner work, the personal work—and I believe in a hierarchy. First physical, get your lifestyle cleaned up, then interpersonal. Start to look at your relationships, your job, your marriage, all these things and then spiritual. What are you here for? What have you inherited ancestrally? How can you understand your compass around good and evil? Is there such a thing in your world? I don’t know.
This work is entirely internal, and I’m a big believer that we have to learn to soothe ourselves. When I see a piece of content or whatever that gets my heart racing and gives me this urgent feeling that I have to share it, I know that that’s the sign that I am coming from a child wound. How can I soothe myself? How can I soothe my child self and have my sovereign adult, dispassionate, calm, cool, collected, undisturbed, consciousness take the wheel and not let the toddler inside me take the wheel? She doesn’t know how to drive. She doesn’t know where the hell we’re going.
I’m the adult here. Everything’s cool. That is not to say don’t act. It’s to say act from this place of self-position. Otherwise, it is manipulation and it’s coercion. It’s the propagation of fear, even if it looks like activism. The work that I’ve had to do I still do every day.
I’ll add I also think the work is very material, so it’s in our lifestyles. I know for me I’ve had to get real about how it is that I’m participating in the system that I’m judging and condemning as having zero interest in the human experience and, quite the contrary, looking to install artificial intelligence instead of fostering humanity. How is it that I’m actually participating in that system? Am I protesting the butcher that’s selling rotten meat, but then every Friday I take their free leftovers they give out? Where is that unintegrated even hypocritical energy alive in my life?
I found it in a lot of places. Now I am focusing a lot of my energy on growing my own food, on raising my own eggs. I just maybe a week ago got off my smartphone, so I have a flip phone now. I’m looking at currency. What is my relationship to currency? Where am I investing? Where am I supporting a system that is ultimately a machinery of dehumanization and control? Amazon, that’s a big one for me. In 2021, I’m getting off Amazon. Do you know how inconvenient that’s going to be for me?
I can’t un-see that I am supporting and participating in exactly the energy that is rolling out this control grid and the Fourth Industrial Revolution that I am sounding the alarm on. This is the difficult work, but I know from personal experience it’s incredibly high yield. What’s on the other side? It’s like you can’t even imagine how awesome it’s going to be. This is the work of liberation, and we want to feel free. We [00:39:02] to feel free.
Dr. Pompa:
The whole situation’s doing the opposite. That’s why anxiety, suicide is going up. We’re doing the exact opposite of what you’re saying is occurring. Again, what you’re saying is the solution. I said we were going to get solutions. I heard you say this. I stole this from you. What we are is, basically, children in adult clothing. The more we’re reacting and responding that way to the situation and other situations in our life, the more we—well, we act inappropriately. We’re not going to be getting things done, and we’re going to become more angry, fearful. You’re responding as the adult instead of the child.
Look, you can give your book because this is something you put a lot of obviously time, teaching into. We’re talking about it here in such a short period of time, but people should really get your book.
Dr. Brogan:
One piece I just want to clarify, though, is that it’s not self-suppression. It’s not that you feel this rage bubble up inside you, or you feel this anxiety that you might just explode with fear over, or you feel this irritation or fear. Then you say stop that. Get it together. Be the adult.
Dr. Pompa:
If it were only so simple, by the way.
Dr. Brogan:
That’s about it. Yeah, exactly, that is not it at all. These emotions are old. For most of us, if not all of us, through my lens, they were ignited. That resonance took form in our bodies decades ago, and we continue to create interpretive experiences of our lives to re-experience those emotions that have not yet been met with mastery of adult consciousness. Instead, we run from them. We’ve medicated them. We’ve rejected them. We felt ashamed of them.
Now we have this opportunity to understand that emotions are very real. They are very powerful. Look what they’re doing. It’s emotions that are actually the enforcement layer of this operation. It’s emotional. This is a very powerful vector, and it deserves to exist. It must exist. Otherwise, that’s what symptoms are, in my opinion.
They’re a way often for you to see that you were not doing a great job honoring who you are and what’s inside you and feeling it and responding to it. If I eat a bagel every morning for breakfast and then I have a headache and I feel irritable and then I take a Tylenol and I have a candy bar as a chaser, I am not learning the language of my body. I am not honoring that. My emotions are real, and they’re trying to show me something. That’s not optimal for your organism. There’s a way to learn how to feel emotions.
Dr. Pompa:
That leads to disease, right?
Dr. Brogan:
Exactly, and the way to learn how to feel these emotions is no one can do this work for you. It’s also acknowledging that they’re often the puppeteer of our behavior. How can it be that we make room for our emotions? We learn their roots. We understand what our triggers are. We recognize when we might otherwise act from that place of real childishness, which is not to say it disparagingly but just realistically that it’s old. It’s from our childhood.
We begin to learn sovereignty, which is really ultimately remembering how to love, remembering what love is. That it’s not saying yes when it’s easier to say yes and no when it’s easier to say no. Often, it’s the opposite. It’s leaning in with compassion when otherwise we would say no. Often, it’s creating that boundary of no when otherwise it might be easier to comply, and we would get the approval of our peers and maybe even that authority. This process is very individualized, but it does involve the generation of the conditions for emotional mastery. This is men and women. It’s all of us. It’s an incredible opportunity for us to begin to do that.
Dr. Pompa:
Right now, I hear you saying is it’s an incredible opportunity for emotional mastery, of course for the situation, but it goes beyond the situation. Right now, there’s just something poking, which is creating more symptoms. The question is is what are you going to do with those symptoms? Are you going to cover them, or are you going to listen? We could have the same talk physically and the emotional. You’re right; I mean, there’s a process here. This is an incredible time. The beginning of all of this, I did a video with my family, and I said we’re choosing to look at this as the greatest opportunity for our family ever. You know what? I’ll have to say this year has turned out to be just that in so many ways that—with the holidays, as a family, we celebrated that. That was part of the victory.
Watching this, I hope people say, gosh, I’m going to stop looking at it the way I’m looking at it. I’m going to look at this as an incredible opportunity to really inner focus here, not here, and make this better. Guess what, folks? You’re going to be better. You’re going to be happier. You’re going to be healthier. To your point, this is an incredible opportunity. What’s the name of your book?
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, I’ll just add before sharing that that the truth is not scary. When you get down to a layer of—you dig deep enough, and you ask enough questions, and you get enough information to confirm and validate your intuition. That’s a big part of what I like to do is provide the science. Not to convince anyone or coerce anyone. I tried that. It doesn’t work but to support the intuition of folks who might not otherwise be as scientifically inclined or whatever.
When you get down to a layer that sets you free, that’s the truth. Keep digging otherwise. Keep asking questions. Is this real? Might this be a myth? Might this be a lie? How many layers of obfuscation are operative here? When you get down to the truth, you will feel free and unafraid, and for most of us, that has to do with tapping into harmony and design that is native to the human experience.
Everything is meaningful and everything is here to serve our return to a state of love, and until we can create the intellectual condition, psychological conditions, and then begin to heal internally, emotionally, physically, and otherwise, well, just touch that a little bit. Don’t rest until you get there. Then you will feel truly that, even in the midst of all of this and your awareness of how dark some of these occultist forces are, you will also retain your joy. It’s not a bypass. It’s not sprinkling glitter or fairy dust and unicorns and saying, oh, it’s one love. Everything’s fine. No, everything is not fine, and it’s a paradox. It’s also perfect.
Dr. Pompa:
That’s a good way to look at it, love. Everything’s love. Everything’s love. It’s like, well, you know…
Dr. Brogan:
No, I don’t vibe with that.
Dr. Pompa:
I hate it. It’s like no it’s not.
Dr. Brogan:
No at all.
Dr. Pompa:
I don’t get that approach.
Dr. Brogan:
Right, and there’s a lot that is not okay, and that moral compass is what we’re reclaiming now. When I see many elements of what’s happening right now, I know it’s wrong, and I feel that in my body. I hope to hang onto that. When I see a whole street worth of people in a mask and my heart hurts, I hope I never ever lose contact with that. If I do, I have given away an essential aspect of my humanity, which is the sensitivity to what is wrong. I am a [00:47:38].
Dr. Pompa:
When I see someone driving in their car by themselves with a mask on, it’s okay to feel like I want to stomp them and be like, whoa, did you forget to take it off, or what’s your paradigm here, I mean, my agitation? You’re saying it’s okay to feel that. Then what you’re saying is what do I do with after that?
Dr. Brogan:
Listen, if you’re in a position to provide information to somebody that might serve to awaken them to a truth that’s going to set them free, please try. Please at least try. Declare yourself. Speak your truth, but do it non-coercively and without attachment to their getting it.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s a fact, yeah.
Dr. Brogan:
Again, their journey has to do with deep, deep, deep threads and roots that stem back to their largely probably unexamined traumas, and they’re not ready to see the bad daddy. That would crumble their whole universe or to understand that they may have so many of the traits that they otherwise judge in others or whatever it might be. People are only ready when they’re ready, and that’s the truth. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to generate awareness and to do our own inner work.
Dr. Pompa:
Here’s one of my adult discoveries. As an adult with passion and purpose, I thought I could fix everybody, and I wanted to. I thought I could convince everybody, and I wanted to. I thought I should. I battled it, and then I burned out. Then my adult realization was you know what? When they’re ready, they’ll come, and God will put the right one in front of me at the right time. Now they do come, and they come and you know when they’re ready. Then you have a good conversation.
Dr. Brogan:
One hundred percent agree. Yeah, I mean, all I have ever done…
Dr. Pompa:
That’s Dr. Pompa. That’s the adult Dr. Pomp
Dr. Brogan:
Yeah, no, I mean, it’s absolutely true. There’s this protector, savior, victim triangle that we can rotate around, and we all struggle with victimhood. I’ve said I think it’s the only human pathology is that when we are delusionally convinced that we don’t have power over our own experience or that somebody else has power greater than ours. That savior role, of course, I mean, I relate to that completely. That’s when I started to research or at least interrogate my own clinical experience to say what makes someone ready? By the time they are at my office ready to come off of psychiatric medication or whatever it is, they’re already ready. I don’t have to do anything, honestly, other than just tell them they’re not crazy or just give them permission to find themselves and hold that space strong.
There will be a lot of infiltrating energies, including their own, that seek to sabotage, that seek to keep us dependent and within the tribal confines of our old self that we promised our family we would be forever kind of a thing. Yeah, no, I completely agree, and it’s an elusive thing. I haven’t figured out what makes somebody ready, but I do see a lot of people readying in this moment.
Dr. Pompa:
Dr. Kelly Brogan, how can they find you, more information? You still never gave the title of your book.
Dr. Brogan:
Oh, yes. Yeah, so I have three books, actually. I have my first book, A Mind of Your Own. My most recent one is called Own Your Self, which is more on these topics we’ve been talking about today, and I’ve written about these topics from—more contemporary topics on my blog, which is kellybroganmd.com. I am moving off of social media and really only on—I have a newsletter, but I’m really only on Telegram. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. It so far seems like a safe space to share information, but I don’t support chats and that kind of thing with different readers.
Dr. Pompa:
Someone just told me about it. It’s more safe than say WhatsApp. There’s no one to—yeah, I’ve done a lot less social media too. Probably for the same reasons you have. I don’t know.
Dr. Brogan:
It’s an engineered cesspool, and it’s engineered for division. We just take the bait. It’s all of our wounds being flung around and our unexamined victimhood and all the rest, and it’s not community. That’s why I’m a believer in paid community online and finding it in your lived space. We need that now. We need people to hold a certain resonance of truth and values in collective.
Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, you’re right, yeah, well, wealth of knowledge. Right now you should be selling more books than ever.
Dr. Brogan:
I don’t think anyone’s reading anymore. They’re YouTubing.
Dr. Pompa:
There’s a unique time here to take advantage of making ourselves better, honestly, physically too, and we didn’t even get there. Some will take charge. Others will remain victims. Choose to take charge of your emotional health, spiritual health, and physical health in a time like this. It’s only a positive. Thank you, Dr. Kelly, for being on.
Dr. Brogan:
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.
Ashley:
That’s it for this week. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode which was brought by you by Fastonic Molecular Hydrogen. Please check it out at getfastonic.com. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv, and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, or sharing the show with anyone who may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.
