2020 Podcasts

333: How to Optimize Your Lymphatic Flow

Trouble fasting, or detoxing or unexplained symptoms? Could it be lymph? what you can do right now at home, from dry brushing to devices you can use.

Today I'm devoting this show to our lymphatic system, which is such an important piece of our health. My guest expert today is Kelly Kennedy – who is a queen of the lymphatic system, focusing on helping her clients relax, heal faster, and open their hearts to true wellness. And she’s here to share her knowledge with all of you!

More about Kelly Kennedy:

Kelly Kennedy is a biological investigator and medical intuitive, whose studies began more traditionally as a pre-med student at Cornell University, where she received a degree in Biology.

Her father passed away from Hodgkin’s disease when she was just 20. That same year, a car accident left her in chronic pain, emotionally drained, and her life in a state of upheaval.

After 3 years of succumbing to the contemporary allopathic paradigm without results, Kelly finally sought a different approach – that of BioRegulatory medicine – which relieved her pain permanently. Kelly knew she had found the answers she was seeking; she began working with Ian Kennedy and a skilled, passionate practitioner was born.

Today Kelly is the Executive Director of The True Wellness Center in Pennsylvania and serves on the Board of Advisors of the Bioregulatory Medicine Institute. Kelly focus’ on the lymphatics and the regulatory capacities of the body to allow healing to occur. Her journey has lead her to KNOW that physical medicine/work is only a piece of the puzzle and that opening the heart and working on the energy bodies is equally, if not more important to get into alignment to allow for true wellness.

In a world facing health challenges of epidemic proportions, Kelly will not rest until “bioregulatory” becomes a household word.

Show notes:
  • Visit Kelly's site here and use the code __ for ___ off.
  • Cytodetox: Total detoxification support where it matters most – at the cellular level.
  • Beyond Fasting by Dr. Pompa – Now released!

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
All right, maybe you’re someone having trouble detoxing or fasting, or you just have unexplainable symptoms. Could it be lymph? You better watch this show because, Kelly Kennedy, gosh, one of my favorite people, she’s a wealth of knowledge in this area of lymph. Look, in this episode, we give you what you can do right now at home. I mean, these things—and she talks about the right order. Lymph brushing, well, most people do it wrong, and they do it out of order from lymph pumping—oh, you’ll have to watch the show. Then we even get into these devices that caused me to sleep around her office, doesn’t sound very righteous, but you’re going to have to watch the show to know what I mean by that. Check it out.

Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith, and today we are devoting this show to our lymphatic system, which is such an important piece of our health. Our expert today is Kelly Kennedy, who is the queen of the lymphatic system focusing on helping her clients relax, heal faster, and open their hearts to true wellness, and she’s here to share her knowledge with all of us. Let’s get started and welcome Kelly Kennedy and, of course, Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome, both of you.

Kelly:
Thank you so much for having me. I don’t want to over speak on Dr. Pompa, so thank you so much Ashley and Dr. Pompa for having me. I’ve very honored to be here.

Dr. Pompa:
She’s more than the queen of lymph. She is the queen of other things too. Trust me on this, and you’ll see that during the show.

Kelly:
Thank you, Dr. Pompa.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, Kelly, you are the wealth of knowledge on lymph, really. I mean, you taught it at one of my seminars and my doctors absolutely loved the information. I hate to back all the way up into the most basic thing, but we have a lot of practitioners and doctors who watch the show and a lot of just lay folks. What the heck is lymph, and what does it do? Let’s start there.

Kelly:
Okay, so thank you. That’s a great question, of course, never a dull question from Dr. Pompa. We have lymph fluid in our body. We have three times as much lymph fluid as we do blood. It’s important when we do our cellular detox that those toxins come out and flow out of the body, and that’s done through the lymphatic system. We have a network throughout our whole body from our head, which they’re called glia lymphs, literally down to our toes where there’s chains or vessels of lymph, like our artery and vein system, and then nodes, which are a little bit bigger areas, like the organs, if you will, where that is the—the lymph nodes are really the place in the body where the immune system identifies what the pathogens, the toxins are. Then based upon that will then produce the proper white blood cell, which is our fighter cells, to go after it.

The lymph is super important because then it dumps into our cardiovascular system. The cardiovascular system cleans that and changes that blood, obviously, and then it dumps it through the liver, the kidneys, the blood if you’re still in the bleeding stage, and breath and urine. We sweat it out. We pee it out. We poop it out, and we breathe it out, basically. If you’re still bleeding, then you bleed it out, but the lymphatic system doesn’t have its own pumping system. That becomes the issue.

Most people, as you know, Dr. Pompa, unfortunately don’t know about the lymph system, whether they’ve been to medical school or even massage therapists, which are supposed to be the ones that know about the lymph. They get about 4 pages of lymph, and yet, 27 pages on the cardiovascular, the endocrine system. The lymph, unless somebody’s had cancer, they might not even know that word the lymph. Yet, everybody right now is talking about immune, immune system. How do I boost my immune system? For giggles the other day, I typed into Google, Wikipedia, how do you boost your immune system? Are you ready, Dr. Pompa?

Dr. Pompa:
Can’t wait.

Kelly:
Exercise, drink water.

Dr. Pompa:
Lymph, lymph.

Kelly:
Sleep well, eat your vegetables.

Dr. Pompa:
All of those affect the lymph.

Kelly:
Which are good but that is a very limited list of how you could boost your immune system, a very limited understanding.

Dr. Pompa:
Right, and when people hear that too, it’s like, okay, I’m exercising sometimes. I eat good. I’m sleeping. It’s like, okay, give me something that I can actually change. By the way, though, funny thing is is all of those things actually affect the lymph.

Kelly:
That’s right. That’s right.

Dr. Pompa:
If I was sitting—I always think, if I’m sitting there watching this, it’s like, well, how do I know I have a lymph problem, number one? It doesn’t have a pump system. We know God doesn’t make mistakes. Why do so many people have lymph challenges? Start with the first question.

Kelly:
Oh, I know.

Dr. Pompa:
How do I know the lymph could be why I don’t feel well?

Kelly:
Primarily, I don’t sleep well. I don’t poop well. I don’t sweat appropriately enough. I have skin rashes. I have headaches. I have fatigue. I have a general malaise, digestive issues. Is that the majority of the clients that we talk to and our doctors talk to right there?

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely. Now, what about, okay, your medical doctor would—finally, when he sees bumps on your neck perhaps or under your arms would go, oh, that’s a lymph problem. Number one, what would he do about it, and number two, when you actually have that, what does that mean? Now that it’s expressing itself like that, is that a big problem?

Kelly:
Fantastic question. I’ve never been asked that question. Thank you for that. First of all, the swollen lymph in your tonsils, in your axillary, in your armpits, yes, medical doctors will palpate that and go, oh, you got to do something for your lymph. What they’re typically going to do is take out your tonsils, and the tonsils are the gatekeeper to the lympathics. Our brain dumps toxins every single night, and the tonsils decide what comes out.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, I have to interrupt you because you taught me this. You said think of your head is the top of an hourglass. Not just your neck but the tonsils as the skinny part of an hourglass and then the rest of your body, meaning that this doesn’t get down here without that. By the way, we know now that at night to have proper deep and REM sleep the lymphatic system has to drain the head, and the brain now we know has a lymphatic system. This is all in the last ten years of research that we just learned this. Okay, so I had to give them that analogy because I thought that was impactful for me.

Kelly:
I appreciate that. Yeah, I look at the body as a very specific hourglass. The top is the head. The neck is the aperture in the middle, and the bottom is the rest of the body. This hourglass doesn’t get flipped. The hourglass always stays like this, and your food goes in, your water. All your stuff goes in the head, and everything comes out the bottom, right? You poop, pee, and sweat. Poop, pee, and sweat out the bottom. If that doesn’t work, you can’t expect anything to come out of the head because everything goes in that direction.

If the head wants to drain, which is what we want to do, we want to get the brain detoxified every night. If brain doesn’t detoxify, it can’t tell the rest of the organs to do its job. It’s like the master chief, right? If the brain isn’t detoxified, well, the brain wants to dump, but the tonsils don’t work or aren’t there. Then nothing’s going to drain, but before that, you got make sure all the peeing, pooping, and sweating works. You got to make sure all this drains out. Then this works. Then this will drain, and that’s the hourglass. It’s your wellness. The other things that clog the lymph, that make the lymph thick—because lymphedema is a condition that’s diagnosable by a medical doctor. It doesn’t mean that you have to wait for a lymphedema to say I have lymph stagnancy.

I wore this specific outfit today for the CellTV because I wanted to show people what a pit looks like versus a puff. There are pits, and there are puffs. Regardless of your size, regardless of your—how well you exercise, you can end up with a pit. We have a little story about a pit too, actually. I just forgot about it ‘til just now. The armpits, you want to have—I have a lot of really thin people, but I ask them to open their arm. Their armpit goes convex instead of concave, which is lymph stagnancy.

Dr. Pompa:
Puffy pits, bad sign that you have lymph.

Kelly:
Puffy pits. Lymph is very superficial. It’s just below your skin. You can start to feel little beads under your skin and in your groin area specifically that feel like sesame seeds. That is lymph stagnancy. Often times, people are like, well, I rebound, and I dry brush. Please dry brush by the way that I teach, by the one that we posted.

Dr. Pompa:
We’re going to talk about that, though.

Kelly:
Okay, good.

Dr. Pompa:
I want you to tell them the right way because people do it in the wrong order.

Kelly:
They really do. The lymphatics are sedentary if we’re sedentary. They don’t move unless we move. I know you’re really good at encouraging people to go outside more, to breathe fresh air, to move that body, which absolutely helps their lymph. However, if there’s heavy metals, if there’s retroviruses and bacteria and other microbes living in that lymph fluid, it’s not fluid anymore. It becomes thick. Instead of water, it’s gelatinous, so it doesn’t flow. It’s like a dam that gets plugged up. You got to get the plug out. When you get the plug out, then your rebounding, your dry brushing, your walking, your yoga, your upside down will help.

Often times, for the clients that you see and a lot of your practitioners see, they’ve been in chronic illness for a long time. They don’t poop well. They don’t sleep well. Their lymph isn’t working well, so they’ve got to do some manual pumping, which I’m happy to offer everybody. That’s free. We teach people how to do that now. It used to be we only taught practitioners, but during COVID, we’re like it is a national—international crisis. We got to get this information out there, so we offer that for free now on our website where people can learn how to do the manual and pumping that we used to teach practitioners to be able to get people to do their lymph. We’ll make that available to your base.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, we’ll offer that. Ashley will put that in the show notes, for sure, so people can do that.

Kelly:
It’s simple.

Dr. Pompa:
I want my viewers to understand that they can do these things, I mean, that they can do these things and open up their detox pathways.

Kelly:
They could do it on their children.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Kelly:
They could do it on their children. I have a 7-year-old. He’s not vaccinated. When he would go to school, he would often—back in the day when he went to school in a brick and mortar school, he’d come home, and often times, he’d have little lymph nodes that were a little swollen. That’s a good sign. That’s his immune system working on all the crap that all the other kids had in. As a lymph therapist, I didn’t really want him to have large lymph nodes. I knew his body was working. It didn’t have enough, so I’d manually pump his lymph.

Now I’m using the Flow Cream from Dr. Klinghardt and from Sophia Institute because that helps tremendously with the manual pump. It gets that flow moving in the lymphatics and often digestive issues too. You can manually pump the lymph. Here, I’ll stand up for a second so I show everybody that. You can manually pump the cisterna, which is an area in your abdomen. Between your bellybutton and your sternum, about halfway, there’s this little area, and you just pump it a little bit and your inguinal. Sorry, I don’t mean to be off camera, your inguinals right in here so that everything flows.

Dr. Pompa:
You wore those pants on purpose, by the way.

Kelly:
I did. I wore my flowy pants so that people could understand that that’s how the body should move. It’s not hard pumping. I don’t want people to go in and push. This isn’t muscle work we’re doing. This is gentle, just pumping of the lymph, so the lymph starts to flow.

Dr. Pompa:
How long do we have to—I’m on that spot. I’m just pumping gently. How long do we have to do that for?

Kelly:
Five to ten pumps per spot.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, that’s it.

Kelly:
That’s it.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, okay, but now, hold on a second. You’re in new spots. Is there an order to the spots? Let’s talk about that.

Kelly:
Yes, so these are the most important spots. These are your termini. These are your endpoints. It’s right above your clavicles, your collarbones, and you just gently pump in a circular towards your back position. I don’t life my fingers necessarily. I’m just pumping and flowing it. Once that’s opened, the way I look at it is we have tollbooths in Philadelphia. We have tollbooths, and then we have exits. These are the tollbooths, and if you don’t open the tollbooths, none of the traffic is going to go through.

Dr. Pompa:
[00:13:31] spot, you’re saying.

Kelly:
If you do no other spot on your body, this is the spot you do. This is the most important lymph area outside your tonsils. Your tonsils drain into here, so you got to open this first. When people traditionally taught dry brushing, they taught it from the concept that if this is my tollbooth and I have stagnant lymph that means my tollbooth is closed. What does that mean? I have traffic backing up. Let’s say I have 50 cars behind on the tollbooth.

What they taught traditionally was to move the 50th car to get it to go through the tollbooth, but that leads to a backup and a pileup. What we do in our training is we go open up the tollbooth. Then move the car that’s closest to the tollbooth and get that one to go through, which is your tonsils, which are the gatekeepers to lymph, which help drain the brain, so they’re also the most important car after I get that tollbooth open. Then I’m going to work this area in my chest. My apical node it’s called. I’m going to work this, and we teach you how to do this on that worksheet. You just pump gently with your other hand, and now that drains into here. Now this car is empty and this car is empty. Now I have room around my tollbooth. Are you with me?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah.

Kelly:
Now I can start to pump that axillary, my armpit, and I can just go under my armpit, put a couple fingers in, and I just gently—again, it’s not pulling. It’s pumping. I just pump that lymph node a couple times, and I get it to drain in here. Then I drain my inner elbow, which relates to my autonomic nervous system, my sympathetic and my parasympathetic, deeply important. You find as you do this you start to relax. It helps people go to sleep. Then that drains into this. Then I’ll do my other side.

Dr. Pompa:
Speaking of sleeping, remember when Merilee and I came to your clinic? She worked our lymph on these different things, and by the way, she has every cool apparatus and all lymph related. It was so fun, but I slept. I wasn’t even tired. I had come in all—and then, before I know it, I was asleep again.

Kelly:
Ten o’clock in the morning. That’s it, out.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, it’s all parasympathetic stimulating, right? I kept falling asleep. Like I said, I slept around your office, and I assure you, I didn’t touch any female in that office. I promise you. My wife was with me.

Kelly:
I assure you, I use that joke all the time because it’s one of the funniest jokes I’d heard in a long time. I tell everybody. It’s my claim to fame. Dr. Pompa slept around my office.

Dr. Pompa:
I did. I really did.

Kelly:
Merilee was here, so it was all platonic.

Dr. Pompa:
We’re going to get to those really amazing devices that you’ve taught my doctors to bring in their office. People will have an opportunity. They can come see you. You have an office in Philly, and you have one in South Carolina. Anyways, we’ll make sure that they have access to you. If you want to go sleep around her office like I did, it’s—I have sent many of my clients to you as well that have major lymph stagnation. Hey, there’s Merilee to say hi.

Kelly:
Hi, Mer!

Merilee:
I owe you a phone call, a Voxer.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, yeah, she sent all the Voxers to Daniel’s Voxer, so you should be getting them some day.

Merilee:
Oh, how are you?

Kelly:
Good. Good to see you.

Merilee:
Good to see you.

Kelly:
Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
I got to cut this off. We got to get to the information.

Merilee:
We’ll catch up. Bye.

Kelly:
Okay, we’ll catch up.

Dr. Pompa:
All right, yeah, see, this is about them, not you two. I had to cut that off. Otherwise, it could’ve went south really fast. Anyways, so the bottom line was—is that, literally, these devices just—I’m telling you, they open you up. It does, in fact, put you to sleep. Okay, so let’s back up. That’s the end of, okay, people that have severe issues. They can go to your office or an office that was trained by you. Okay, so I’m assuming that lymph brushing is following a same sequence. How does this differ from lymph brushing, lymph pumping is?

Kelly:
Lymph pumping is going in to unclog that dam that’s got a little plug in it. It’s going to take the plug out, and then the brushing will actually be effective. I had clients for years using rebounders and dry brushing and it didn’t make any noticeable difference in their clinical experience, nor in any of the regulatory testing that we were doing. When I started to employ, this manually pumping was the first thing I started to do, and I’m like, whoa, that’s making changes. Then, based upon that training, I went, well, then—I appreciate you calling me the lymph queen. I appreciate that, but we both know that I have a lymph goddess out in New Zealand, Desiree De Spong, who taught me everything I know about lymph and continues to teach me. I continue to read, of course, but she is the lymph goddess.

The lymph is really something that not a lot of people are really looking at, which is such a shame. When you employ this, especially when you’re doing detox, especially when you’re doing cell detox, or you’re doing intermittent fasting or any fasting of which you’re such an extreme expert on, that is all dumping into the lymphatics, and it’ll only make you go through the process so much faster. A lot of our clients or practitioners, they go, oh, I don’t want to get a Herxheimer reaction. Then move your lymph. I don’t deal with Herxheimer. I don’t like Herxheimer reaction. I’m adamantly opposed to them, and if you move the lymph, the system doesn’t get overwhelmed.

You and I both come from the same philosophy. The whole job of our body as a human being is to get the toxins out faster than they’re coming in, lifestyle changes, getting the body to work for us with autophagy and with lymphatic movements and so forth. If we can get everything to drain out faster than we’re putting it in, then we win. Then we’re not worried about viruses coming to attack us because we’re standing strong knowing that we’ve enhanced our ability and optimized our immune system so that whatever it comes across it’s going to come in like water off a duck’s back and just fly through. My immune system is enhanced—your immune system is enhanced to do this job. I firmly believe that the entire body is the immune system. Its job is to survive. There is no separating out a system.

The whole working unit is an immune system to survive. If it’s up against the glyphosates and the processed foods and the stress, which you and I both know is the bigger problem now than the virus is the stress, the emotional issues that this whole thing has caused of putting people in this—I’m in fight-flight mode constantly. I’ve got to constantly wear my mask, and that person coughed, and they sneezed. Everybody is just so stressed, and that is doing the opposite of boosting our immune system, and that stress thickens the lymph.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, in a perfect world, the lymph takes care of itself, our daily movements, etc., etc., but we’re overcome with physical, chemical, emotional stress. Then we’re stagnant all day. I mean, all of it—then we’re in a sympathetic mode. Parasympathetic mode is what we need to be more of, so it’s not working. Therefore, then it backs up the whole train, if you will. I want my viewers to really get a grasp of this. You said start here.

Kelly:
Yep.

Dr. Pompa:
Pump.

Kelly:
Pump.

Dr. Pompa:
Like you said, maybe five to ten pumps.

Kelly:
Five to ten circles, little circles. We’ve already pumped our lymph so much just talking to them. It’s crazy.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, there. Then you said go…

Kelly:
Outside the tonsil area.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, up here. This is the second area, okay, and then the third area.

Kelly:
Apical node.

Dr. Pompa:
Right here on each side, of course.

Kelly:
This is going to be on the worksheet with pictures, just so you know.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, and can you do them both at the same time?

Kelly:
I would do one, then the other.

Dr. Pompa:
All right, then the armpits. Now, when do you do this one?

Kelly:
After the armpits, inner elbow, then it’s cisterna.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, oh, armpits, inner elbow, cisterna, got it.

Kelly:
Cisterna. Oh, we didn’t go over this. My right side, my right hand, my right on top of my clavicle drains the right side of my head, my right arm, and my right thorax. That’s it. That all drains here. My left side drains my left arm, my left side of my brain, my left thorax, and the entire rest of my body drains here. It all fed from the cisterna. All the lower body feeds up to the cisterna, and then it goes up to the thoracic duct that runs here right above my left clavicle. This is to me first, second, third of importance.

Dr. Pompa:
Got it.

Kelly:
Sorry, got a little excited there with my movements.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I was getting a little excited there. Go ahead. What were you going to say?

Kelly:
Then we do the inguinals. These are not the best pants to show you inguinals but that area where you bend. Wherever we bend is where we have the highest concentration of lymph nodes.

Dr. Pompa:
I was just going to say that, yep.

Kelly:
You pump in the inguinals, and then you can pump behind the knees. For a lot of people that have lower lymph edema—or even just swelling, some people just have swelling when they go on planes, or they don’t walk, or they sit at their desk too much or whatever. Just pump the back of your knees just gently. In body work area, this is called the danger zone. The reason it’s the danger zone is solely because it’s a very tender area for your lymph and then the area around your ankle. That’s it. I always end back here.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, and end back there, good.

Kelly:
Just to make sure that the tollbooth stays open.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s the lymph pumping, now the lymph brushing. You said it would be better to do it next, so take us through the proper lymph brushing.

Kelly:
It’s basically the same movements. You can either use a brush. If you don’t have a brush, you can even use a rough washcloth that has got a rough surface to it, and you’re just going to start here and brush it.

Dr. Pompa:
[00:24:32] down a little. We’re getting a little bit of blowy feedback. There you go.

Kelly:
Sorry. If you can’t use an actual brush, you can just go ahead and use a really rough washcloth, and that’ll be a little abrasive. You don’t want to put—you don’t want your skin to be red. I find most people push too hard for the lymphatics.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, yeah, well, first time I learned about brushing, first of all, I was sick at that time, and I literally took the first layer of skin off. I overdo everything, only to learn later it’s like that made it worse, not better, so anyway.

Kelly:
Yeah, less is more with the lymph. Your skin should get a little pink but not red. You’re just brushing the lymph, and you’re always brushing in the direction of the heart.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, so you start here again, right?

Kelly:
Start here, so I’m brushing towards the heart.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, that’s right. You brush in that direction toward the heart.

Kelly:
Yep.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, okay, that’s toward the heart. It’s draining this way toward the heart.

Kelly:
Yeah, you’re just going in that direction.

Dr. Pompa:
Then go up here. Then hit those, right?

Kelly:
Yes.

Dr. Pompa:
This, this, and then come back down here again.

Kelly:
Then do this with the brush.

Dr. Pompa:
Towards the heart so towards center, right?

Kelly:
Towards center, yes, towards midline.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, okay, then through here, then from here. Okay, now, what about down here? Then we’re going toward up again.

Kelly:
Now you’re going up and here, always toward the center.

Dr. Pompa:
Always towards the center, always toward the center.

Kelly:
Think about, if this is the hole that I got to fill and it’s water, what’s the easiest way for it to get in there?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s easy. That’s good and then inguinals but towards the—okay, so how long should that take?

Kelly:
Ten minutes total to do pumping and dry brushing.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, see, that’s really—that’s easy. People can do that, right?

Kelly:
That’s so easy. We do say dry brushing. This isn’t do this in the shower because you need the little bit of tension on your skin to create this. I do recommend that they do it in their bathtub or shower because it does shed a lot of skin cells and exfoliates you. You look down, and that can be a little gross at times. You want to do in the shower so you can rinse it all away.

Dr. Pompa:
Good, good idea. Where can they get a dry—I know you said the washcloth. That’s a great idea if you don’t have it, but maybe someone wants a brush.

Kelly:
We do sell them on our website on notmeds.com. Honestly, I hate to say it, but Bed Bath & Beyond, you can go get a simple brush. They’re not that big of a deal.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, perfect.

Kelly:
If you look at our website, I mean, you shouldn’t be spending more than 10 to 12 bucks on a brush. It’s not meant to be a huge piece of equipment. It’s just the concept of a brush. I should have one here, sorry, the brush with the nubs on the other side. That’s what you’re looking for. You can either use the brush or the nubs.

Dr. Pompa:
All right, yeah, good, perfect. This is home care. Of course, we have supplements. I could put some of those in the show notes too. I want this to be about stuff we don’t talk a lot about. What else does someone—now, you mentioned [trampolining]. People are going to ask about that. Now, I think I heard you say don’t do that until you do this.

Kelly:
What I have found in all honesty, Dr. Pompa, is that, when people don’t do this first, they don’t feel an effect from doing the other. You and I both know nobody’s going to do anything until they feel it long term. I want to make sure that people stay with this, so don’t bother to do the rebounding, the dry brushing until you do the manual pumping. You got to unplug it. Then, once you unplug it, things will flow. If I just try to flow, it’s still plugged. It’s not going to get through it.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, like you said, I mean, doing this while you’re on some supplements. I like changing and rotating supplements, so I’ll have Ashley put some of those in the show notes that we’ve used, that Kelly and I have used for years. Then add it to this process. Okay, now let’s go beyond. Let’s go to the person who’s really having issues, lymphatic majorly blocked. These are the ones that I would recommend contact you. These are the ones that I’d recommend, and I’ve sent them, right?

Kelly:
Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Pompa:
Where I go, okay, this person’s really bad. I’m worried about getting a cavitation done because their lymph’s blocked. Okay, so let’s talk about some of the devices that they can use that you’ve helped my doctors put in their offices. Matter of fact, doctors watching, we’ll put the links for some of these. If you don’t have them in your practice, you might want to get them, so talk about some of these really cool things that we’ve used.

Kelly:
We use the vibration platform, which I know you recommend, and the double RRT. I mean, it’s RRT, but you need two of them, not one, to really move the lymph and the fascia. Then we use FLOWpresso, which was designed by my friend in New Zealand, which is a suit that wraps you up, wraps up your legs, your feet, your abdomen, your arms.

Dr. Pompa:
Explain one at a time. Start with whichever one you want.

Kelly:
The vibration platform, there’s different kinds. Is there one specific you recommend, Dr. Pompa?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, I mean, you have one. I mean, the Lifetime is one that a lot of our doctors use as well.

Kelly:
It’s Soloflex. Soloflex is the one that we use. It’s a specific vibration that’s going to move your lymph. We said earlier that the lymph doesn’t have its own pumping system. What the vibration does is it creates a little movement for your lymphatics. In all honesty, you can also just cause a little goosebumps, or we know that the muscle’s called arrector pili, which is a much better and cooler name, but by creating goosebumps alone, that’ll start to move your lymph. If you don’t know what else to do, use those.

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, we used to use the vibrating machines for postural correction. When people would get itchy—this thing makes me itch. I said your lymph’s blocked. It was a sign that the lymph is blocked.

Kelly:
When you do inversion and you itch, that’s a sign that your lymph is blocked so vibration, just getting your body to vibrate so whether that’s rebounding, a vibration platform, or even sometimes I have people sit on an exercise ball and just do this. Just bounce. Just get your body to move a little bit. That’s vibration. The RRT, which is Rapid Release Technology which I know that you are very versed in as well, I have two of those, and I use those all over the body to stimulate and open the fascia and to stimulate the lymph. We didn’t talk about fascia.

Dr. Pompa:
We’re going to get to fascia, yeah, exactly. That’ll be our next topic after we get through these devices.

Kelly:
The lymphatics for the RRT, I use that on the whole body, down the Bladder meridian to open up the neck and just get the movement again going. I don’t use that with every client because not every client can tolerate that level of vibration. For the ones that have been working with us for a while, I find if I do that for five or ten minutes or one of my staff does before they go on to one of the other outfits they get just that much more of a benefit. Then they can push out their care. As much as we love to see clients, clients don’t love to see us at our office that often. They like to space out to their appointments. I only like to space out appointments because they’re getting better. I’m fine with it as long as they’re getting better. I find that this tends to—once somebody’s at a certain level, it tends to push them where their other treatment is now about one and a half times as effective by just doing the RRT first because it really loosens the fascia and the lymphatics.

Dr. Pompa:
Then the laser is Lymphstar. You can talk about that.

Kelly:
Then Lymphstar is two globes. They’re basically lightbulbs that sit in certain areas. There’s three noble gasses in these globes, and they create a vibrational acoustic sound massage. It’s been theorized that the cells in all of the universe is just—it’s a vibration, right? It’s all just sound. Really, the cells respond to light and sounds, and so when you have this vibrational sound and it’s also admitting light, the lymph responds. We often just blast those areas, those same node areas we talked about for really, really stuck people.

You sent us a client that had had a cavitational surgery. That was the pit story I was thinking about. She was a young woman, like 18 or something. She may have even been younger than that. Her first cavitational surgery wasn’t 100% successful. She had to go back to it, and she had all this puffy, puffy, puffy, puffy. We came in. We did lymph. I think it was two days before she went and had her cavitational surgery. She had the cavitational surgery and, literally, the next day had pits, like pits.

Dr. Pompa:
Just like that.

Kelly:
She was thrilled because she could now wear T-shirts. As a young girl, she had never been able to wear sleeveless shirts, and that was embarrassing. Now she can wear sleeveless shirts because she has pits.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s awesome. I remember.

Kelly:
That was only the beginning. I postulate that part of the reason her cavitational surgery wasn’t as massively successful as it could’ve been was because her lymph was so stagnant. While it got out of here, it didn’t go anywhere, so it just re-infected. It needed to move out, and now that it moves out, I know she’s doing very, very well now.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, she had some serious stagnant lymph, I mean, no doubt. Yeah, she’s doing better.

Kelly:
Right, yeah, good.

Dr. Pompa:
This will make you laugh a little bit. Cory Carter, if you’re out there watching, I give you credit for showing me the Lymphstar first and explaining to me how amazing lymph is. No, he’s a great trainer. He is. I did want to give him credit. I remember when we did a Facebook Live. He was like I showed you that first. I was like he did. He did. He really did help me.

Kelly:
I got him to sleep around, Cory. That’s the difference. I got him to sleep around. No, I’m kidding. The thing is you were focused on other things at the time, right? You were going through your own journey, and now you’re at a point where you can help others with this level. Cory was a huge piece of that, and we thank him so much for his access.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, I know. He’s a great teacher, great guy. Okay, the presso, talk about that. People that came to my seminar that used it, it was like—again, I fall asleep when I go in it, major parasympathetic stimulator. It works really different from the lymph. Explain what it is.

Kelly:
FLOWpresso uses the concept of deep compression to relax the sympathetic nervous system, number one. It’s a suit that was originally—Desiree really biohacked, if you will, with some engineers some other equipment that was on the market that was…

Dr. Pompa:
Desiree was the lymph goddess that she referred to in another part of the world, literally, that created this.

Kelly:
She created it because we were frustrated with the fact that, while the Lymphstar was awesome and it helped the lymph, it doesn’t do much for the fascia, and it doesn’t do much to put somebody in a parasympathetic mode. What we know is, if somebody’s in a parasympathetic mode, their lymph moves. What’s interesting for me is, with the COVID, we’ve had so many people that want body therapy, but they’re scared to go do it. They’re scared to let somebody touch them. FLOWpresso’s timing, it was only launched in February of this year. I mean, we had a prototype for the year before, but the launch was in February, and COVID hits in March.

Dr. Pompa:
I know.

Kelly:
Now we’re open with people going I want to get body work. I’m like come in. You can be in a room by yourself. You can stay clothed. You can feel like your whole body’s massaged from your feet, your legs, your abdomen, and your arms. What it does is it compresses like a hug and then releases, hug, release, hug release in a nice sequence from your feet to your legs, to your abdomen, to your arms and all over again.

There’s also infrared in the suit, which the infrared is helping your mitochondria. It’s helping you detoxify. It’s also helping soften the tissue for the fascia to allow the fascia to move more, which allows the lymph to move more. Then there’s pulse electromagnetic field technology that’s employed at a specific point to help release the emotions. We use a few other things in the center to cover their eyes, put some affirmations over their ears. You’re laying there for 40 minutes. You need a little bit of entertainment to get you out of your brain, get you out of that sympathetic, and you can use sounds. You can use different things, but we often use affirmations because people need more self-love we find.

What this does is most people—by the second or third round, I’m like no, no. Let’ me know if that compression’s okay. It shouldn’t feel like a squeeze. It should feel like hug. They’re already starting to fall asleep. I’m like stay with me. You’re going to have 40 minutes of this, and we’re 4 minutes in. Stay with me to make sure your compressions are right. That’s the biggest challenge is to keep somebody awake on this, which is beautiful.

Dr. Pompa:
I was out the first time, right? I think I even fell—in my own seminar, this is when it was first…

Kelly:
You did.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I mean, I’m all revved up. I still fell asleep. I went on. Oh, I have an hour beak. I went on it. It was like I still fell asleep. It’s remarkable. Practitioner’s watching, you can—we’ll put a link if you want one of these. It’s just now being offered in the United States. Like you said, I mean, this is brand new.

Kelly:
There’s only about 20 in the—in Canada and the United States right now, and it’s amazing opportunity for all of us to help our clients, give them a condition in which they find themselves in comfort. They don’t have to have another practitioner in the room, and honestly, from a practitioner standpoint, once you understand the philosophy and the paradigm of FLOW, fascia, lymph, overall wellness, my technique, it’s very simple to administer. It doesn’t take a lot of complex understanding. I mean, if you’re in this world, you understand what happens when people drain out their toxic loads. Anything can happen, right? You want to make sure that you’re versed in that, but we’re here to help you and support you. We want everybody’s dams to be open and let the water flow out, let the lymph flow out. FLOWpresso has been hands down, in all honesty, the most beneficial piece of equipment we’ve brought on to the practice because it does the thing of putting people into the parasympathetic mode. It allows them to relax.

Through COVID, that’s how the South Carolina thing happened. We wanted to open up a space down here. We have a dental friend, a dentist friend that’s down here, and his clients were so stressed. They were cracking teeth, I mean, over and—that was his first three weeks of COVID. He did nothing but work on cracked teeth because of people’s stress. I said we got to get FLOWpresso down there and start to relax these people. That’s not a good—you can’t heal if you’re in that state.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s a great device. Yeah, my doctors watching will be happy they can actually get them now. Before it was just the—what do you call it?

Kelly:
The prototype.

Dr. Pompa:
Prototype, now they can actually…

Kelly:
The prototype but now the launch is out there. We have marketing now. We have FLOW Show, which airs every Wednesday night on 8:30 East Coast time, 7:30, figure the rest out, 7:30 Mountain Time. Myself and another colleague are doing a ten minute show every week on how you can work your lymph at home to teach people about lymph. The Flow Show, you like that name, Dr. Pompa

Dr. Pompa:
I like that. I love that, yeah. All right, so you mentioned—I mean, you said fascia, lymph, and, okay, general wellness. We didn’t talk about fascia, and that’s one of the things that that device actually—yes, it hits the lymph, but the fascia it also affects, which what I’ve learned from you is that’s a big deal. Look, for years, I’ve known the benefits of lymph and opening it up and all the techniques, but I never really heard about the fascia connection until you. Explain it.

Kelly:
We all have a skin, right? Under that skin is another layer that looks translucently and…

Dr. Pompa:
Turkey, turkey example.

Kelly:
Yeah, turkey, well, I’ve been yelled at about the turkey example by all the vegans in the world.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, no, come on. First of all, God bless the vegans here, but we have mostly meat eaters here. It doesn’t matter.

Kelly:
Oh, right, I forgot where I was.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s a great example. Turkeys have skin.

Kelly:
Yeah, so when you lift up the turkey and make your turkey and you throw all the butter and the oil and the fat in that to get all the good nutrients out of it, when you lift that up and you’ve got that cellophane kind of stuff, that’s your fascia. That fascia is throughout your whole body around every organ, around every joint, and that fascia is the skin under our skin. That fascia is really its own nervous system, and it’s complex in its communications. I firmly believe this is where a lot of the emotional traumas are held as well. If you overuse a joint or you’re not in alignment, if your spine is in alignment, you can twist your fascia. There are so many things that can screw up your fascia, sitting long term, whatever.

Then think of it like pantyhose now. If your fascia is your pantyhose and you overuse them, they shrink. What happens when your pantyhose shrink, ladies? They’re hard to put on. They get runs in them. It’s not good, and now the information can’t flow. We want to get the pantyhose to be the right size. When the pantyhose are the right size, then all the fluid inside it can flow. If not, then it’s going to get caught up. It’s going to have detour problems. Scars will influence your fascia.

Scars are an impediment to healing, and so if you have a scar—I have a 12 inch scar on my head. That’s how I got involved in fascia. I was in a car accident. I have 12 inch scar.

Dr. Pompa:
If you hear her story—oh, my gosh, we don’t have time for her story, but her story’s amazing.

Kelly:
Thank you. It’s not as amazing as Daniel Jr.’s however because he raced me through the end game and got there in 12 weeks what took me 20 years so good job. He got to biohack with all your information. It took me a long time to learn what Daniel knew already. The fascia gets screwed up because of different aspects of physical life, and then the lymph inside it gets clogged. The fascia and the lymph work together to get this flow to happen.

I think, honestly, we haven’t begun to understand the fascia, to be honest with you. I’m barely scratching the surface of what the fascia is really about, and there’s a great little YouTube—Fuzz Speech it’s called. It’s the really geeky Gil. His name’s Gil, and he’s a forensic scientist. He uses a cadaver to show people what the fascia’s about. It’s a wonderful explanation of it called the Fuzz Speech.

Every night when we go to bed our fascia gets tight again, and we got to open the fascia up. That’s why it’s good to move. I mean, every morning we got—dogs, what’s the first thing? You have your beautiful Goldendoodles over there that we know Merilee loves and loves and loves. Where are the Goldendoodles? Right there, right? What’s the first thing they do every morning? They stretch.

Dr. Pompa:
They do, yeah.

Kelly:
Why don’t we? When I do and I’m sure you do too, I crack and pop every single time because it’s my fascia opening. Now my fascia’s open. Now my lymph can move. The more that I can flow out my toxins—again, I hate to be a broken record but the healthier I’m going to be. Now, lifestyle, definitely, I don’t want to put more toxins in and just work on getting them out faster. I want to clean up my lifestyle. I want to make sure that what I’m putting in is good because I’ve educated myself. Through CellTV, through True Cellular Detox, through Revelation Health, I’ve been able to educate myself about how to not feed the beast. I’m not going to feed it, but I’m also going to get it out.

I work very little at being healthy, to be honest with you. I mean, I do a FLOWpresso at least once a week. Mostly because like any good addict I make sure that I stay true to my addiction. I love FLOWpresso because it keeps me calmer. Merilee and I are very similar energies, you all, very similar energies. Those of you who’ve met Merilee and I, it’s not—it’s difficult to get a word in edgewise when Merilee and I are in the car, actually.

Dr. Pompa:
I actually like it. I don’t have to say anything. I can just sit and listen until you all turn around and go, no, do you have anything to say about this? I have a few things.

Kelly:
My energy can’t be here all the time because I’m not recovering, and being in the parasympathetic mode really helps me recover. That’s what FLOWpresso is about. The side effect, honestly, is the lymphatic flow. The reality is it puts you in a deep state of relaxation.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, it sure does.

Kelly:
It allows the lymph to flow. There’s two settings, two programs within that, one that works more of restoration and one that works recovery. The recovery one is a compress and hold throughout the whole body and then one big release, which is really more working with that fascia. For athletes or your star pupil, fasters that really want to optimize their bodies and they’re pushing hard, this is a great way to recover a lot. Really, that’s what we looked at with you and Mer. When you guys had come to the center, it was honestly just weeks after Daniel had jumped, and your stress level was 130%. When you guys got there, you were able to just finally relax.

Dr. Pompa:
Honestly, that’s why I slept around, I mean, honestly. It was just like—I swear, that weekend may have saved me from other issues. That was one of the most stressful times of our life, obviously, almost losing our son, and if people don’t know that story, my son literally went off a 60 foot cliff and hit rock after dropping 50 feet. He should’ve been dead, but he’s not. Thank God. He’s not even paralyzed.

Kelly:
He’s thriving. He’s thriving. If you don’t know his story, you need to know his story. He needs to write books about his story. He needs to be on television about his story. His story is incredible, and I don’t think we paid enough attention to it, honestly. It was not even last July or August.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, exactly.

Kelly:
I mean, it’s been about a year, and it’s hardly talked about. That kid is a miracle.

Dr. Pompa:
You know why? It was so trauma that it was like—you’re right. It’s like we almost don’t want to go back there right now. It’s like you get freed from something, and you don’t. You’re right. It needs to be—I’m going to get him to write the book. I haven’t even interviewed him, specifically him. Merilee, myself, and him—Ashley, put the link in here. We did an interview together.

Kelly:
Yeah, you did that one Cellular TV. That was awesome.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I’ll put the link in there. People are like I don’t know the story. That’s the story. I need to actually one-on-one with Daniel because I want just to hear his mindset through it.

Kelly:
Yeah, it’s been enough time now. The point is the body has the ability to heal. Everything he was doing from the TRT, which also helps with the lymphatic flow—there’s more than just we have. Listen, I love FLOWpresso, but I also know and so does Desiree we’re in the age of technology. We’re just taking ancient wisdom and combining it with technology to get the amazing results that we get. Right now, FLOWpresso is the top of the charts. It’s the cutting-edge technology. Five years from now, that might not be true.

We’re not attached to the equipment. We’re attached to the concept of what the lymph is, and right now, this is the best thing out there. It’s less than $10,000 for anybody to purchase it, so it’s affordable. The return on investment in a center is incredible. We’re giving a discount during coronavirus because people need this.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, the link that you have, she’s giving us a greater discount. We have a lot of practitioners who are going to want it for their office.

Kelly:
You have to put the code in of POMPA. You have to put the code of POMPA in to get that discount. This is now the time not only as practitioners to be able to help those clients but for the clients to get the care without the fear.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, absolutely. Okay, by the way, when I was at the office too, I had a—I had a physical fascia…

Kelly:
Manual.

Dr. Pompa:
…release technique that your person did.

Kelly:
That you tried to steal.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, matter of fact, I should really come get that this weekend. It was just so amazing. She was amazing. Anyways, it was different than a massage therapy. The goal is to release the fascia, which affects the lymph.

Kelly:
We work fascia and lymph together, and I don’t know anybody else that’s doing that. There’s only 60 trained fascia specialists in the United States, 60, plus 1. I’ve created my own technique called FLOW, and we’re starting to train. We’re putting the curriculum together, Desiree and I, to train people with us. When you work the fascia, lymph, and the muscle—because it’s one unit. It’s just like separating out mind and body. Good luck!

Everybody says, oh, I went to my medical doctor. He’s just a physical doctor. Yeah, you think he’s not working in your emotional body? You’re crazy. You can’t separate it. He might not be intentional about it or she, but that doctor that’s putting that injection in your arm to give you the flu shot was also working on your emotional body. It just maybe wasn’t intentional. We need to be more intentional and more conscious so that we have more responsibility for what this body does and doesn’t do.

You’re an amazing pioneer, Dr. Pompa. I almost called you Dan. Dr. Pompa, truly, you’re an incredible pioneer to teach people how to take responsibility for their own health. Take responsibility for their own lives through their health, through their nutrition, through what’s on the end of their fork, or maybe they’re eating too much. It’s okay to fast, and it’s okay to water fast, and it’s okay to dry fast. I’m into all of it now. It’s okay to do all that.

My husband and I, we each lost about ten pounds during the coronavirus because we were fasting more. I finally took the time to employ what you had taught us. I had done intermittent fasting a little bit, but I’d never done real fasting. It was amazing, and we both felt better. We were brighter, clearer minded. That’s the point. The body has the power to heal. We just need to assist it.

Dr. Pompa:
When you and I came together, it was like this perfect harmony. When you’re fasting, how much—all these physical things, you can’t put this in a bottle. These are things you all can do right now, and so many of my viewers are fasters. Add this. That’s why we have Kelly on here. Again, lymph products, that’s one thing, but you can’t duplicate what we’re talking about, right? I mean, you can’t put this stuff in a bottle. You have to do all of it, and that’s why I [00:52:39].

Kelly:
So many of your clients know Tommy, right?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, Tommy [Maho], yeah, I interviewed him here.

Kelly:
Yeah, I saw that. Tommy was a perfect example. His fascia was tight from that accident from when he was 6 years old. We start working his fascia. Now, he was able to get an occipital release. He was able to get all of these other therapies. His lymph started to move. His pain in his pelvis area started to calm down as he moved his lymph. While he was detoxing, it wasn’t shifting some of the tissue because the lymph wasn’t moving.

Once we shift the tissue, the toxins come out. He continues to get better. I haven’t seen Tommy now in months because of the COVID, but he’s continuing I know with you and myself and doing work. He’s continuing to get better because his body’s doing the job, and he now knows how to move his lymph.

Dr. Pompa:
All right, and this is the last point, you brought up the stress effect on the lymphatic system. You even said with fascia that a lot of the traumas are trapped in the fascia, right? One of the most amazing things that I experienced at your office was this system using your own heart, literally, your own heart rhythm as far as releasing stored emotions and trapped emotions. I’ll tell you, I never—I don’t think there’s a device out there that can even do this. I mean, there’s a lot of other therapies. There’s tapping, and I believe in all of it. This is the only device that—you have to explain it because it’s unbelievable.

Kelly:
Thank you. I’m very honored. I mean FLOWpresso and this are—I feel are my gifts to the world that I have worked for 20 years in this industry to find these two things that I know this is my—yours is to get them to cell detox. Mine is to calm down and open their hearts. Sound of Soul is what Dr. Pompa is referring to, and it’s a technology that was created by Rasmus Gaupp-Berghausen in Austria who worked directly with Masaru Emoto, the water crystal guy. What Rasmus got frustrated with is not everybody—he didn’t find it was duplicable to talk to water and make it look beautiful crystals under the specific conditions.

He found if he played their heart rate frequencies and Dan—Dr. Pompa, and I really agree about this, then everybody is beautiful in their hearts because everybody made beautiful water crystals. When their heart rate frequency was played to water, everybody made beautiful water crystals. It doesn’t matter if they’re a mean, nasty person or a nice person. At our hearts, we’re all good. Inside of us is where the healing occurs, where our God part is.

When our heart rate variability is converted into light and music, that frequency of our heart rate is converted into frequency of light and music. Then that music might turn into harp, or it might turn into piccolo, or water waves, or bird sounds, but that frequency is resonate with us because it harmonizes with us. When we harmonize, again, you go into that deep parasympathetic state. Another place Dr. Pompa slept around. They go into that deep parasympathetic state, and it allows the body to heal.

What’s beautiful about this equipment is that you sit there for an hour, and maybe you have five, seven sessions. We see which ones are giving us the best heart rate variability readings and the best parasympathetics and the most heart opening based upon the most variability. Then we make an audio clip, and we send it to you. You can listen to it all the time until you no longer get a visceral reaction from that. That means because you’re vibrating at a higher level. Now it’s maybe once every two to three months you go back in and get another one.

What’s beautiful about this is—my mother just turned 80 last weekend. God bless her. She takes no medication. She doesn’t listen to much of what I say. She’s got a mouth full of amalgams. That’s for another story, but God bless her. What she does have is faith. She taught me faith. I put her on the Sound of Soul, and I was blown away at how strong her heart was because I know she’s got disease in here, I mean, mouthful of amalgams since she was 9 years old, crazy as a lunatic. I hope she never watches this. I love my mother, but not a rational woman.

Dr. Pompa:
If we got the mercury out of brain, she wouldn’t be but another story.

Kelly:
Dude, she tried to vote by putting—and she sealed the envelope. She had to open the envelope up. She put it in the microwave and it lit on fire, hand to God, pure comedy. Love her. She’s got faith. I put her on the Sound of Soul. Her heart’s open. Her parasympathetics are up. I looked at her, and I was like she’s going to live to be 120, just like the Bible says we’re going to be. I know she is because she has an open heart.

It was beautiful to listen to it, and it was also a challenge for me. My mother and I are like oil and water, and it was hard for me to harmonize with her. Once I got on that, we’ve had a better relationship in the last two weeks than we’ve had in 46 years.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s incredible. I want to bring the science to it a little bit.

Kelly:
Yeah, sorry.

Dr. Pompa:
No, that set the stage.

Kelly:
I tell stories.

Dr. Pompa:
Stories is actually what make people really understand the value of this, right? The body frequency, I’ve been studying frequency and understanding its impact on health, cells. The science is all around it. It makes so much sense to me because the body will literally create the frequencies it needs to heal. Often times, the interference and the stressors are so much. The heart rhythm is a frequency.

Kelly:
That’s right.

Dr. Pompa:
Capturing the very innate intelligence own frequency and then giving it back to the body as a treatment. I just think it’s just the most amazing thing.

Kelly:
I agree.

Dr. Pompa:
It makes so much scientific sense to me that, yes, of course. I have to tell you this story. The first time Merilee used it, we’re sitting there, and you’re explaining it to her.

Kelly:
Oh, you’re going to tell that part?

Dr. Pompa:
It starts. She goes, “Okay.” Now, your heart, you hear your heart, right? She’s like, “Yeah. Yeah.” The music with it, all of a sudden, she just starts crying. I’m like, “What? Do you have something in your eye?” She’s crying. I’m like, “What’s wrong?” She’s like, “I don’t know.” I’m like, “What do you mean you don’t know?”

Her and I are having this conversation, and Kelly goes, “Oh, no! I didn’t tell you that. That many people cry the first time they get on it.” It’s an emotional release. That to me was it. I was sold. I know my wife. My wife don’t cry, okay? She just doesn’t cry.

Kelly:
She’s a very heart-centered person.

Dr. Pompa:
She is.

Kelly:
She’s full of love. She gives, gives, gives, and she’s constantly trying to help others.

Dr. Pompa:
Always.

Kelly:
For me, I mean, the first time I met Merilee was—it was quite the conversation. She had no idea she was preaching to me, but she was. She was speaking directly to my heart, and I was so happy to be able to give this back to her. I wanted her to feel that, that regardless of everything else—she’s gorgeous on the outside. We know that but, on the inside, to see that inner beauty. She’s had some challenges in her life and her family and so forth, and this was a way for me to help let her see how amazing she is. We know, in all honesty, Dr. Pompa gets a lot—the lime light, right? He’s on the front stage often times, but many of you don’t know how hard she works in the back scenes to make so much of this happen. Dr. Pompa and I wouldn’t know each other if it wasn’t for Merilee I think in a lot of ways.

Dr. Pompa:
I wouldn’t know anyone, actually. She keeps me connected to the world.

Kelly:
What’s great about that is, when she harmonizes with her—which is what happened that day. We put that sound out there and she went I feel harmony, and she cried.

Dr. Pompa:
Resonate frequency.

Kelly:
God bless her. She lives in a house with 17 men and 1 woman once in a while. Her daughter’s around once in a while. No wonder she’s been traveling so…

Dr. Pompa:
She’s counting fish and dogs. Yeah, she’s right. Yeah, there’s a lot.

Kelly:
There’s a lot of men in Merilee’s life.

Dr. Pompa:
What you described though is that resonate frequency, right?

Kelly:
Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
When frequencies match, boom, the power goes up, and that’s exactly what she experienced in that moment. It was just powerful stuff. Point is is that, look, I mean, we know. Everyone watching this knows. Trapped emotions, traumas, they cause disease just like a toxin, and this device can be transforming. Do we have a code for this for the people watching?

Kelly:
POMPA, they’ll do the POMPA code as well.

Dr. Pompa:
I mean, do we have a link for…

Kelly:
Sound of Soul?

Dr. Pompa:
Sound of Soul, yeah.

Kelly:
Yeah, and it’s on the NotMeds website, which is the new website I created over the coronavirus. NotMeds stands for naturally oriented therapists, medically enlightened doctors and specialists, which Dr. Pompa will be a guest on our podcast soon, which it doesn’t launch until the 11th of July, which is after this I’m sure. The NotMeds is a way to access FLOWpresso, Sound of Soul, and the FLOW Technology, the technique. It separates it out from the clinic.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, we have a lot of practitioners that watch it. I’m a believer in the technology, massively. It just resonates to me, whereas so much—there’s so much woo-woo in so many emotional things. I say that without even being critical. I say that with—for me, I have to grab onto the science of things still.

Kelly:
So did I.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s doesn’t discredit it. I’d be clear, but the science around this makes so much sense to me.

Kelly:
One of the things we’ve talked about is that I meditated. I tried yoga. I tried all that, and I couldn’t walk through the door that everybody was waiting for me to walk through and be like, oh, now I’m enlightened. How do I get there and dah, dah, dah, dah? The first time I did Sound of Soul, I felt it in my heart, like the sacred heart. I literally felt the sacred heart of my heart. I held my heart when I did it. I was full on crying.

Now, I was with the creator, Rasmus, when he did it on me. I changed that day. I was never the same. I’m very intelligent. There’s no doubt about it. Dr. Pompa, you’re very intelligent.

I love to think, and I love to have what I call brain sex. That’s one of the things I love about Dr. Pompa. We have a lot of brain sex. We talk about a lot science. My heart, I start coming from heart, and everything changed. I could still employ this, but I was coming from here. I knew exactly where to go, where to be. Now, my innate intelligence, my God part was leading me, and that changed it for me.

I think what he’s created with Sound of Soul is here to heal the world. It’s in 26 countries. They’re using it in Italy during—in the labor and delivery center to help women fall—they fall asleep and wake them up to tell them it’s time to push because now they’re ten centimeters dilated. It’s working as though it’s an—not an anesthetic but when they put you under. I can’t think of the word, anesthesia. It’s working like an anesthesia. They did a heart stent at that same hospital in Italy while doing no anesthesia but Sound of Soul. Not that we want to really talk about China right now, but China, in the hospitals there, they use acupuncture to put people under, not anesthesia. What if you could use Sound of Soul, no drugs, nothing to do for your liver to flush out? Wow! Wouldn’t that be different?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, huge.

Kelly:
Huge.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, imagine.

Kelly:
Not to mention that every heartbeat in our body is completely unique to any heartbeat before and after it. That is amazing!

Dr. Pompa:
Isn’t that? Isn’t that amazing?

Kelly:
That’s amazing!

Dr. Pompa:
You think the innate intelligence doesn’t know? I mean, that’s how it sends frequency out through the body. Oh, it’s good.

Kelly:
It’s responding to all of life. The whole system is based upon the Fibonacci series. They can watch Rasmus speak. If you ever want to interview him, I could get you an interview with Rasmus.

Dr. Pompa:
I would love that. I would love that. Ashley, you heard that, yes.

Kelly:
I’ll make that happen for you. I feel so stupid when I’m in a room with Rasmus. I feel so dumb. When you watch this hour and a half, which is available on BRMI which you’re an advisor on that board, on Bioregulatory Medicine Institute online, which is a resource, a nonprofit, noncommercial website that’s just purely here to educate you and give you empirical-based evidence—mostly from not this country, in Europe and so forth about all these technologies that Dr. Pompa talks about, that I talk about. All the techniques we talk about, it’s all empirical-based evidence. It’s all there.

If you go there, you can watch the events from 2018 when Rasmus was speaking, and you can watch the entire hour and half that he spoke. It’s more math and science than you could possibly put in a book. It’s crazy what he explained. I went up to him afterward. Everybody was scrambling to talk to the instructor, and I waited my turn. We got all done, and I said, “I just have one question. How old are you?” He looked at me like I had four heads. I was like, “I just want to know how old you are. Most of my mentors, no offense, are in their 70s, and I have a lot to learn from you. I need a few decades I think to get there.”

He’s my age. He’s 46. He’s got a lot to teach us, and I’m really looking forward to you being able interview him and take his message out to the world.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I spoke to him one time, and I wish I had more time. Yeah, we’d love to interview him here. We’ll make sure we put up Kelly’s information, how to contact her at her clinic. We’ll make sure of that, but you can give—even just give it verbally here so people can contact.

Kelly:
Yeah, so the website is thetruewellnesscenter.com. That’ll take you to our Philadelphia area and our South Carolina near the Hilton Head area clinics. Then notmeds.com is also where my podcast is going to be launched, as well as where a lot of our YouTube channel is, as well as the information on FLOWpresso and Sound of Soul.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s great, wow, great information, Kel. Gosh, I just love hanging out with you. You see that. We just geeked out there with the whole heart thing.

Kelly:
I know, and I’m sorry I looked a little distracted. In all honesty, I’m 20 minutes late for an appointment. I just told them that I got to go. I’d be late for them because this is important. What you’re doing for us, I really appreciate everything you do at CellTV, and I promote you and your book and get people to fast. You’ve just enhanced my life in many ways when I met you just a year ago.

Dr. Pompa:
Likewise, I slept around your office. I promise I won’t do it again.

Kelly:
I hope you come back soon and sleep around.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I would love to.

Kelly:
South Carolina instead of Florida this time. Come to South Carolina instead of Florida.

Dr. Pompa:
You’re right, actually. I might absolutely take you up on that. Appreciate you, Kel. Thanks for all the information.

Kelly:
Thank you so much, Dr. Pompa.

Dr. Pompa:
Changing lives every day. Appreciate you.

Kelly:
Talk to you soon.

Ashley:
That’s it for this week. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. This episode was brought to you by CytoDetox. Please check it out at buycytonow.com. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv, and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, and sharing the show with anyone you think may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.

332: Cancer is Curable Now

With the explosion of cancer, more people are looking for alternative treatments. Today I welcome Marcus Freudenmann, who is the producer of the documentary Cancer is Curable Now, and the founder of his Truly Heal program.

Marcus has been researching effective cancer therapies for many years, and in this episode we'll discuss the most effective alternative treatments, and how you can even do them at home. We'll take a deep dive into these therapies and why I believe they are so needed.

More about Marcus Freudenmann:

Marcus Freudenmann is the Producer of the documentary Cancer is Curable Now and the directors cut Truly Heal from Cancer, and director of the Truly Heal Academy.

Marcus has dedicated his life to educating the public on how to perform therapies, which are proven to work in many international clinics and at home, saving patients money. Marcus travels regularly around the world determined to provoke change by educating on cause finding and alternative cancer therapies.

Marcus offers Functional Medicine Health Coach education and support to thousands in the form of newsletters, webinars, courses and videos including the education of Ozone, PEMF and Hyperthermia treatments.

Show notes:

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
With the explosion of cancer, look, more and more people are looking for alternative treatments. They go to a clinic. Maybe it’s a cancer clinic in Europe. Maybe it’s in Mexico or even here in the United States and they get hit with a $40,000, $50,000 bill to do certain treatments. Ozone treatments, PEMF treatments, maybe other energy treatments and hyperthermia. Look, in this episode, we are going to discuss these treatments but most importantly, how you can actually do them at home and perhaps avoid the big bill. We’re going to take a deep dive into these therapies and go beyond even cancer of why these therapies are something that I believe today are very needed. We’re going to give you how to at home, so check it out.

Ashley:
Everyone, welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith and today, we welcome Marcus Freudenmann, who is the founder of Truly Heal and the producer of the documentary, Cancer is Curable Now. Marcus has been researching effective cancer therapies for many years. Since we love inviting people on to the show who could show us a new way to approach things, I cannot wait for this interview. Let’s get started and welcome Marcus Freudenmann and of course, Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome both of you.

Marcus:
Thanks for having us or having me.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Hey, she welcomes me as well. Marcus, this is a great topic. I want you to tell your story in a moment of how you ended up here with such an important topic. Let me start by saying this. Right now, there’s a growing number of people looking for cancer alternative therapies whether it’s with chemo, without, whatever it is. They go to a clinic. I know many of them. I’ve visited many of them looking at what they’re doing. I can tell you that it is the same when you go to these clinics. There’s ozone therapies, hyperthermia, maybe some hyperbaric. There’s IV therapies. There’s maybe some peptide therapies but the point is that, they’re doing a lot of the same therapies. That could run you 50,000 bucks.

You, I believe, happened upon that and says, gosh, how can we create this in the privacy of our own home. More importantly, keep it within our pocketbook. That’s what this show is about. How many of us know people with cancer? Again, you and I have both been to these huge cancer clinics and we see that these are the things that they’re doing. I think most people would say, yes, I have to pay for it because I can’t do these at home. You’ve proven otherwise. Marcus, that’s the topic of the show but how did you get into this. Start with your story.

Marcus:
A friend of mine was diagnosed with cancer and it was quite a shocking experience. For the first time, I was like, I’m an architect. I’m an interior designer. I’m a visualization artist. I’ve done so many things, nothing with health. When we were faced with it, I thought, well, let’s just find a solution and I realized how arrogant that was at that early stage because you run out and you think you can conquer the world and it’s a lot harder than you think. It’s very humbling. We started to go for alternative treatments parallel to what the oncologist wanted. The oncologist was not cooperative at all. He was very, very aggressive in trying to push us into chemo. I always said, let’s wait, let’s wait.

Then Sabrina, my wife, who’s a naturopath, so she picked up some tests and that’s when we figured out that all detox pathways didn’t work. That she had a huge liver impairment that didn’t eliminate toxins. We started out with flushing and with coffee enemas and the normal thing that you try to get rid of toxins. It started to work but the pressure of the oncologist was so immense that Janet budged. For those of you who don’t know, when you have DNA impairments and certain detox pathways in your body don’t work properly, and I’m not saying they don’t work. They just indicated in their test that they have impairments. Maybe work with 30% or 40% and she had all of them in red.

That means, as soon as they introduce chemotherapy, then it just doesn’t detoxify. It stays in the system. It re-circles. It becomes more and more toxic because in the liver in phase 1 which was working but phase 2 wasn’t, it just was made water soluble even extra toxic and then she passed away from the second treatment. When you realize something like that, it’s scary. You see that even though you had the test results—and I was banned from the clinic, the oncologist kept me out. He said, “You’re no longer welcome in here.” That cause then an emotional reaction and that I guess was my big kick into getting started with that subject.

Not giving up, finding a solution, and yeah, we had interviewed a total of 150 doctors around the world. I packed up my family into a suitcase and then, we traveled, four kids and my wife for three and a half years around the world. From clinic to clinic to doctor to doctor in India, in Japan, in all of Thailand, all of the Asian countries, all of Europe, Mexico, Canada, and America. It was mind-bending because when you first of all see different countries, different cultures, how they approach the disease, and then, you see the philosophy coming from it because at first, I had no philosophy. It was a disease in the body that we had to eradicate.

I’ll never forget an interview with Dr. [00:06:47] he said to me, “Marcus, you’re asking really stupid questions. Who cares about all those treatments? Don’t think treatments, think what is wrong with the patient?” I said, “Well, she has cancer.” He said, “No, that’s just the symptom. What is wrong?” You know how difficult it is when you have a concept in your mind to change that and actually get—it was not easy. I always kept falling back into my old line of questions and I was with him four weeks to shadow and to—and I think after week two, it clicked and I realized really that I was focusing on the wrong thing.

There’s a beautiful example that he showed me. He pulled out three charts and he said, “Look, all three, breast cancer. All three same style, breast cancer, same aggression, everything.” He said, “Now look at patient number one.” Then he went through and it was actually abuse, it was self-loathing, bad diet, high inflammation, very, very leaky gut. The whole complex of somebody that neglects themselves. Another one had EBD combined with Lyme disease combined with mold. Totally sufficient as a cause. The next one had electrical sensitivity, mercury fillings [00:08:17] with root canal filled and then, detox pathways [00:08:21]. He said, “Three breast cancers, three causes that are completely different and if you look at the treatments that we need to do for patients, they are different too.” What does that tell you? I was like, “Okay, I get it. I get it. I get it.” We need to find the cause.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely and that’s my philosophy. We make the same mistake oftentimes in alternative medicine as we do regular medicine. We’re looking for natural treatments. That was ingrained in you. We want to kill cancer, kill the cell, kill the cell. It’s all fine and good. We know the stories. They go in, they get chemo, some napalm, kill the cells, kill a lot of good ones too. 10 years later, they end up with another cancer. I’ve watched that happen. Oh, and they’re considered a cure by the way. The mistake was not removing the cause. Also, I want to reiterate something you said that’s very important. I talk about a perfect storm. I still coach people from around the world with unexplainable conditions and illnesses.

I’ll tell you, it’s always the same thing. It’s three stressors that come together. Physical, chemical or emotional, it doesn’t matter. It could be mercury, mold and emotional trauma. It could be emotional trauma, it doesn’t matter. It’s typically three that come together and then, it triggers genes and we have dysfunction. You’ve described that. That’s a page right out of my book. This perfect storm does in fact come together. If you don’t address these storms and the causative factors, then you’re never going to get—I mean, again, you might have a temporary solution but you’re going to end up with a new problem later. You traveled around these clinics. My question was going to be, what did you learn? You learned that. What else did you learn?

Marcus:
We made the documentary in the end. It was like something that just grew. I had so much footage.

Dr. Pompa:
Where can we see the documentary? We’ll put the link up here.

Marcus:
trulyheal.com/cellularhealing. I made a special page for you where the video is, where the documentary is, where you have a six-part video training. That shows functional medicine in action. It’s really beautiful. We’ve put that together because we had so many cancer patients ask, Marcus, what do I do? You explained so many different things. Do I need to look after my teeth? Do I look at my DNA? What is my liver impairment? They get overwhelmed. We made the six-part video training that takes them very gently through different aspects that need to be looked at.

If they come to trulyheal.com/cellularhealing, then that’s where they can find. When you look at documentary, you realize it still deals with a lot of treatments because somehow the cause because it’s really different for every patient is woven in between. What we do is with our functional medicine training, we look at how we find the cause. That’s why I’ve combined those two on the page, so it just makes sense. What you started out with, it’s true, and we all know that. You go for your treatment and it costs you a fortune. Then they tell you, would you mind to come back in half a year. We need to do a refresh and another 20,000 and another 30,000. It just keeps going.

I’m was doing a lot of—how do you call it? Consultation first time. Which clinic do I recommend? Where would I go? What would suit you best? After a certain time, people called me and said, Marcus, I can’t afford that. It’s not possible. What do we do? I’ve been always a mini inventor, somebody that just doesn’t give up. The biggest treatment that I fell in love with because it had the biggest effect on all clients that we send there was in my opinion fever, fever therapy, hyperthermia. It was so significant. Everybody who started going through that treatment had such a massive effect. You go three weeks to a clinic. You have three treatments, one a week. That’s not enough.

It requires a lot more repetitions and that’s why the doctors told you, well, do the treatment repeatedly, come back now and then just to have another fever therapy because it just activates your white blood cells. It boosts your immune system. It detoxifies. It’s phenomenal. Most people don’t do that because it’s overseas. In America, it’s very few. It just ends up that short-term boost and you can see that. They come home to the clinic, the health goes up, and then, they stay a little while in the top. Then they go back home and everything falls back into the old ways. Then they come back and it goes back down. I said, how do we do that? That we can stay healthy at home and continue those treatments. That’s pretty much what we’ve been working with thousands of patients around the world to train them how to do those treatments at home.

Dr. Pompa:
All right. Let’s talk about it, hyperthermia. How do we do it at home? Describe what it is. I mean, you and I are using that word but most people are like, what do you mean? Yeah, they don’t even—hyperthermia. We’re getting someone body temperature just like your innate intelligence would do for a virus or bacteria. Raise the body temperature up to beat off the bacteria or virus. You’re creating that same situation using some heating things. How do we do it at home?

Marcus:
There’s different ways. For those people who can’t afford anything, but have a bathtub at home, they can do it in the bathtub. They would fill with water, as hot as they can get in and submerge completely. Then they turn on the hot water. They have to have a very good thermometer to check the temperature. They bring that up until they hit about 38.5, 39 which is what I call the trigger point where the body goes into own fever [00:14:52].

Dr. Pompa:
What is that Fahrenheit?

Marcus:
101.3, I think, 101.5 is what we—normally, we do the same thing. We use a hyperthermia dome. It’s a far-infrared dome and we’ve modified that because the normal sauna domes, when you go in, they don’t get you into fever or it takes one and a half hours and that’s way too long. We checked [00:15:20] beds in Germany and the Heckel beds.

Dr. Pompa:
What are they?

Marcus:
They are commercially used fever beds in Germany. The [00:15:33] bed is—it is used in university clinics. It has those water-cooled, far-infrared systems. It’s a million dollar that device. If you buy a Heckel bed, it’s about $30,000, $40,000 for device. I went with my little dome and we measured the frequency of the far-infrared and adjusted that exactly the same and increased the power of the heaters a little bit. Then we had the same result. We used a sonar dome. Those domes where you lay in.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I have one.

Marcus:
Within 20 minutes, you have 101.3, 101.5. It really goes just equally fast as these commercial beds. That was something I started out with. I had nine domes until we got to the right one. We started to give them out for people to see the effects and to see the result. We have a health coaching platform where we have a lot of health coaches and professionals. I always ride out to that community and say, would you mind testing and then, give me feedback. It was really working out. We had the dome and that’s what we started then with a rectal thermometer that you can see body core temperature and follow through. We’ve designed a complete training on how to do it at home. A checklist with 20 points to go through step-by-step how to set it up. How to replenish electrolytes. How to do an IV beforehand like the whole thing. You replicate a medical treatment at home and it’s fantastic.

Dr. Pompa:
Just to be clear, that 101.3 Fahrenheit body temperature, that’s a body temperature, not the air temperature or water temperature?

Marcus:
That’s body core temperature. With the rectal probe, you’d know exactly. You reach the curve. It shows you the curve. How you get up there. The nice thing is, when you do it the first time and you pull the plug from the wall, let’s say at 101.3 and that’s just for us that kick point where actually your normal immune system should start on its own. The first time, you might just drop down again and fever vanishes. When you do it the second time, you might hold that fever for a while. The third time, it’s like the body says, oh, that’s what I was supposed to do when I was a child. I had fever. Many cancer patients when you remember back, they can’t even remember when they had last fever.

What we do here is we introduce the treatment, two, three, four times until the body kicks in. Most patients, after the second, third time, go up to 104, 105 and that’s not induced. That’s just kickstarted with the dome and then, the body does the rest. The results are just phenomenal.

Dr. Pompa:
How long do you want to keep the body producing that temperature? How long?

Marcus:
All studies show that it’s required to have at least half an hour to an hour. Minimum half an hour but it—when you see so many clinics and so many different concepts on how they do it, I found the nicest was to bring you up to fever, let the body go up as high as it wants, but then, wrap the body in wool sheets. We use even the thermal sheet to pack around so that you stay like a baked potato in the silver foil. You will likely cook happily ahead. You try to keep the fever for at least an hour, hour and a half. If you need to go to toilet, you use a bottle or a bed pan. There’s ways to solve that or even with diapers so that you don’t drop out of the heat because that’s just interrupts the treatment.

You know what happens when you have high fever. It’s like in your bone marrow, there is those mini soldiers. I always see it like in those science fiction movies. All those Army soldiers sitting on a long string and then, as soon as the temperature goes up, they are released and flushed out into the bloodstream. I’ve seen it so many times. It’s actually done in Munich, in Frankfurt, in all the university clinics. When the patient has chemotherapy and the white blood cell count goes down, they take them into hyperthermia which releases white blood cells from the bone marrow and then, they can continue the treatment. Even if you combine the two, it’s absolutely favorable. It also reduces all the side effects of chemotherapy.

For many patients who say, well, I can’t deny my oncologist, but I would like to do something to reduce side effects, to increase the efficiency. Many clinics use one-third or half the amount of chemotherapy in order to compensate with hypothermia because it just balances out. There’s so many different ways and I say it’s not exclusive, only hyperthermia. You can combine it with high-dose vitamin C, with artemisinin or mistletoe. There’s so many different ways to enhance its effects or even chemotherapy. Then just add it as an additional function and it’s powerful.

Dr. Pompa:
Marcus, I think most people would say, how does this differ from just getting in my sauna?

Marcus:
Oh, you don’t get with your normal sauna into that fever, into that high fever. It’s just not possible. I’ve tried it many times. We have a sauna. We have a small sauna that is very closed-in so I thought maybe that one does it. I’ll never reach that moment where my fever kicks in and I guess, it’s just the distance. We had to go from 800 watts to almost 2,000 watts from sauna to hyperthermia dome to have that effect.

Dr. Pompa:
If someone’s at home, where do they purchase something like this? I mean, these home units that would do better than their sauna. Sunlighten has the dome. I actually have one of those. I mean, because you’re closed, is that what you can use?

Marcus:
It could work. You need to try it. I always say because I’ve bought all. I have the Sunlighten. I have a Clearlight. I have all of those domes at home and I tested them. The problem is, when you go in and you have your rectal probe, you see how long it takes until you get to that 101.3. To get there is as fast as possible because you don’t want to lay in there for a long time and slowly heat up because then you run out of time or patience. It’s actually exhausting too.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, it is.

Marcus:
The faster you go up the better it is. That’s why we’ve increased—we don’t sell the dome outright. We don’t have it as a sales item. I want people to go first through our training program. When they sign up on the website, they will get an information about the dome and about the training because we are dealing here borderline medical home use, sauna. It’s a mixed—it’s not clear-cut legal as I would say because we don’t want to get in trouble. We teach people first how to use it. They see the treatment. I do the treatment myself. My wife does it. We have about 10 clients that do the treatment.

As you see, how we deal with high fever spikes—I had a client with multiple myeloma going in. Within 15 minutes, he was at 40, what is that? 106, 107, that’s high fever. He was up there and holding it for two days. Afterwards, his cancer started to shrink and go away. It was a viral infection that he had including bacterial infection. He had been traveling around the world. His whole body was full with different viral infections. When he started to get rid of those due to the fever, all of a sudden, everything disappeared. That’s scary. As someone who doesn’t know how to handle fever, we did those calf wraps. Wrapping cold vinegar cloth around the calves to pull out the heat.

At a certain stage, we actually administered an enema because it pulls out the heat from the body to bring him back. He was really burning, but it solved the problem. In that regard, I’ve done the training quite well. We cover all those issues. We cover what you do when the fever goes too high and before we sell the dome.

Dr. Pompa:
How much is the training course?

Marcus:
Free. I don’t charge for education.

Dr. Pompa:
Actually, we’ll put the link in here again, but—

Marcus:
I’ll put the link into that cellular healing page and do underneath three buttons with ozone, hyperthermia and PEMF so that your clients can actually learn how to do that.

Dr. Pompa:
All right. There’s a learning process. I mean, if they purchased this thing to help them heat up, how much is that?

Marcus:
I think it’s $3,000.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, all right because if you’re trying to heat—

Marcus:
If you go [00:25:31] thousand dollars for one treatment.

Dr. Pompa:
Could they get into a—like you said, they have to get the bathtub up as hot as they can otherwise, but then, again, how long? What’s that?

Marcus:
Bathtub is difficult. Water is far more exhausting than far-infrared. It’s draining.

Dr. Pompa:
It really is. That’s the thing, a lot of sick people can’t handle that. They just get wiped out. The infrared is the way to go, but to your point, the sauna just doesn’t heat up enough because it’s maybe too far away as you’re saying. There’s a way to do this. That’s it. Now, let’s move into ozone. I’ve done some shows on ozone. I do ozone at home. Again, most cancer clinics, you’re right, they do hyperthermia. They do ozone. They do PEMF which we’ll talk about next. Talk about some of the ozone. What did you learn here?

Marcus:
Can I just do one more thing about hypothermia because I think that’s the best effect especially in modern times right now, in the time we are now. I’m not mentioning the virus. I’m not mentioning anything because we’ve been taken down all videos.

Dr. Pompa:
I know. I know. It’s true.

Marcus:
Everybody who knows, it’s the present condition that we are suffering and it’s a viral infection. There is a beautiful effect as soon as your body core temperature goes up. Let’s say 39. I would need to—I’ll do the calculation in a moment or maybe you can do it in the meantime. As soon as your temperature goes up, 38.5, 39, the viral RNA that goes into the cell and copies the amino acids into clones doesn’t work at that temperature. When you have a viral infection from 38.5, 39 Celsius, it stops reproducing the virus. It’s like a complete standstill of [00:27:46].

Dr. Pompa:
That’s why your body runs up a temperature when you have a virus, to stop it.

Marcus:
Exactly. The second factor is, at that stage, at that temperature, they get heat shock proteins and I describe that always they get green hair. Now, your immune cells which is set before all those soldiers in the bone marrow have been flushed out into the body due to the cytokine communication. They get now the information, who needs to be killed? All the guys with green hair and they start cleaning up and wash out. Maybe it’s not the fever that kills the virus or the bacterium or the cancer cell.

The secondary factor of the heat shock proteins is actually long lasting and that’s why all doctors say, one treatment a week and you do that regularly once a week. The effects last for over two weeks. If you do once a week, you build up more and more and more and you bring yourself back to health. I’ve done it for HIV, for hepatitis C, for EBB, for any kind of viral infection. You will see a change within two weeks, three weeks like day and night.

Dr. Pompa:
Wow, that’s great.

Marcus:
I just had to mention that.

Dr. Pompa:
Great strategy by the way for any virus for that matter. Okay. Now, ozone. What did you learn about ozone?

Marcus:
Ozone is well researched in Germany. I spoke with many clinics and they said, look Marcus, we went with ozone and then, there was like the same wave as everywhere around the world. It was banned here in Australia. New Zealand wasn’t allowed. In America, it’s very limited. It was the same attempt in Germany. Some of those private clinics said, we stopped using it because we were asked to stop and because of legal problems and [00:29:51]. Our success rate went down dramatically. We can see that the overall success rate—we deal with let’s say 500 patients a year or 1,000 patients a year depending on the size of the clinic. When we stopped using ozone, our results went down.

Most of them reintroduced it. At first, it’s a treatment that doesn’t show any effects when you do it. I had myself. I had a multi-pass. I had a major autohemotherapy. I didn’t feel different from before until after. I thought, oh, it’s not worth putting it into the documentary. Then two doctors called and said, Marcus, why did we show you all of ozone. You missed one of the most important treatments in your documentary. I said, okay, I’ll re-edit it and put it in. That was in early stages, but I didn’t understand it. Then we had exactly the same thing. Viral infections, bacterial infections, Lyme disease. It’s one of the main protocols and it’s not because it kills bacteria, fungi or anything. It’s because of the oxygenation of the body. Until that was in my head and I really understood the principle.

The main effect is that your red blood cells are—they have how long,128 days, they live. When you stop using ozone and you do it the first few times, you trigger a production of new red blood cells in the bone marrow which have a completely different capacity to take on oxygen and release oxygen. They just release it much faster and they have a lot more charge to pull it through two membranes, the lung membrane and the blood vessel membrane into the hemoglobin. It’s a lot of charge that is required to bind the oxygen from your lung into the cells. When you do that and you start building up with ozone—and that’s why it’s usually a two-week, three-week, four-week treatment protocol in rectal insufflation or IV.

Then it’s like metastasis, angiogenesis, all of that is stopped because your body has enough oxygen. We all know that your immune system, your white blood cell needs the respiratory first, chasing bacteria, running after the thief and then killing it. The oxidative burst to build hydrogen peroxide and to kill the bacterium. That’s where they need a hundred times more oxygen than they normally do in a relaxed state and that just made it so clear why we have to build up. Yes, hyperbaric oxygen puts the oxygen there, but it’s still the release, the catch and release, the supply for the tissue is a lot slower. That’s why it was so cool to see that ozone really just brings that effect into a patient’s life and the long-term results are just increasing.

Dr. Pompa:
I’ve done 10 passes, ozone dialysis and saline ozone and I do it in my home. I do rectal ozone. How does someone do this at home. I personally do rectal ozone. Is that what you’re recommending or something else?

Marcus:
No, no, no, rectal, rectal. I’m not allowed. We’re not clinics, not doctors, so no needles, no nothing. That is invasive. It’s invasive enough. We teach all the different techniques on ozone use for sinus. Sinus treatments, oil bubbling, ear insufflations, rectal insufflations, vaginal insufflations, [00:33:54]. We have a complete training on all the different applications, on how to do them. Then we have combination. If you have for example, Lyme disease or Epstein-Barr virus or what combination of different supplements, different treatments and ozone treatment. How to combine them. Then every page contains all the research studies that I’ve done about this subject or the fever and [00:34:22] charts.

Probably, you’re familiar with [00:34:25]. She has done a lot of research on different strengths. If you have ulcerative colitis, leaky gut, IBS, how to treat rectal tumors with rectal insufflations, high concentration for three times and then going on low. I went through all the different concepts that different doctors do and put them on to a website where the complete training is there. You can use it and it’s free. If somebody decides to buy an ozone generator, we have a home model, a very simple one. I decided to go as easy as possible. High-tech machines up to $10,000 but for home use, that’s not relevant. We sell a bundle which has the glass [00:35:13]. the oil bubbling, all the tubes, all the valves, all the regulators, everything in it and even the ozone oils for topical application. That’s like a home pharmacy.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I love mine. I use it all the time. Okay, PEMF. Something else I have in my house. I love PEMF. Just reflect back on what it is. Why it’s useful for everything that we’re talking about and how you do it at home because these units are expensive.

Marcus:
[00:35:45], very expensive. I always call it the couch potato treatment. The lazy man’s treatment because you just sit in your lazy boy while watching TV and have a treatment. Compared to hyperthermia, it’s a—

Dr. Pompa:
It’s a breeze.

Marcus:
When you think about the toothbrush and they go, [00:36:06] and then, you put them into that little charger stand and they recharge even though there is no metal connecting metal. It’s an induced magnetic field that recharges the battery and then, after a while they work full [00:36:20] anymore. Same thing with ourselves. Magnetic fields recharge our cellular energy and if you have a disease and many can just follow through. If you have just a flu, your energy drops down because the body needs to deal with the virus or with the bacteria or with an inflammation. It just drains and drains and drains. Chronic disease over a long period of time, just makes you tired and exhausted.

Now you sit someone on PEMF and you pulse that energy field into the body and that gives them—I have one client. They have a retirement village and I brought it there. I said, “Well, test it out and let me know what you think.” They ordered 10 devices for all the different departments. I was very happy with that, but the nurses came to me when I give the training and they said, “Marcus, before we had aches and pains and tired and oh, and headache. Now we have parties in the corridor, nightly outings where people escape the compound and we have parties and sexual activity again. That’s a different side of problems that we need to deal with.” It was so sweet how she explained it, but it was like that rejuvenation. That energy that you get in the body. That’s phenomenal.

In Germany, they use it to weaken the tumor. They use those high intensive machines like the [00:37:55] or the PMT. They pulse the tumor, directly targeted because the cells of a tumor are very brittle. They don’t stand a lot of charge, that positive charge of the membrane so they disintegrate and fall apart. They do PEMF beforehand because it also increases the intake of whatever IV you do. PEMF first and then, IV therapy. Whether that’s chemotherapy or low-dose chemo or it’s a natural agent, it doesn’t matter. We use that PEMF beforehand to prime the oxygen uptake, to prime the blood intake and to energize the cells.

Dr. Pompa:
I use mine almost every day. There’s something called membrane potential. That potential, to your point is how you move things in and out of the cell. Toxins out, good stuff in. Sick cells, we should be around at least negative 70 in the lower because negative 50, negative 40 dysfunction, fatigue, brain fog, digestive issues. You get around under 20 and you’re not. You’re talking cancer cells. Up regulating that membrane potential. I love this technology. I invested in it. I have it in my house. People would not be able to have one of these. I mean, how do you recommend doing this at home?

Marcus:
It depends. Look, I always say, if someone can afford it, then perfect. If it causes too much stress to finance, then don’t. Then use hyperthermia or use ozone because ozone, the effect of that discharge of that simple molecule recharges the body as well. By doing ozone and drinking ozone water and having the rectal insufflation, you’re already bringing your body and you can see that membrane potential change in the same way. We always focus on, if stress becomes too big and too much money and too scary—

Dr. Pompa:
I agree.

Marcus:
Then that’s counter effective. I always say, let’s build up from your budget whatever you can afford to make it happen. If someone has the money to do a PEMF, there is nothing better than that. Elderly people who don’t do hyperthermia, who don’t have that drive to treatments or do rectal ozone, for them a PEMF is god given. It’s such a blessing. It’s such a power. We did a big test because we have such a large community from our health coaches and practitioners. We went and send always out. We do the chelation test or an OligoScan or we do hair mineral analysis test or leaky gut test or something like that all together. Then we do a treatment protocol for a certain time with something.

We decided to go for the black box. The Black Box from Quicksilver Scientific. It’s a detox box and we’ve checked our heavy metal beforehand. Everybody had a test and then, we went on to the Black Box with PEMF, 50 people and the other 50 without. Then we checked afterwards how much our detox had gone down and the PEMF group was just amazing, so much better detoxification. I guess it’s what you said. It’s that cell membrane potential just opening up all those iron, potassium, and whatever channels there are and releasing the toxins. It was just flushed outbound and then taken away, so really, really beautiful.

Dr. Pompa:
Imagine if you did it with the True Cellular Detox, my program. Far superior by the way.

Marcus:
You have to send me the information. We always test it out.

Dr. Pompa:
I’m going to leave Ashley to that because my work is really complete in this area. That’s why these things all work with my work. Look, these things are all great, but unless we up regulate self-function and utilize real chelators around it and binders and that’s what makes my work. This is 20 years of me teaching doctors around the world that concept.

Marcus:
Wow.

Dr. Pompa:
Most people, Marcus, do detox very incorrectly. Again, reiterating that here are treatments that we need to be doing while we’re looking up straight into the problems. It could be hidden infections. It could be [00:42:41] heavy metals from multiple sources. It could be mold exposures folks. Again, when I take someone and coach them, I’m looking when I coach doctors. I’m teaching them to look for those causative, hidden factors.

Then, when you put it with these types of treatments, to utilize, get the innate intelligence, immune system fighting with you. That’s what hyperthermia does. The ozone treatments to Marcus’s point. The PEMF. Now we’re going to be able to actually get the body to heal itself permanently. Doctors don’t heal but we work with the body to do so. You have to take away the interference. That’s the whole point of this.

Marcus:
If that’s not gone, it’s fighting upstream.

Dr. Pompa:
You might do these things and feel better but the problem is that you stop, you’re not going to be better and some is going to come back. The energy medicines as far as lasers, lights. This is very popular and most cancer clinics have these. Now I’ve done major shows on the Joovv light, different lights, SaunaSpace. There’s so many different light therapies now we can bring in our home. Is that something else you recommend?

Marcus:
Yeah, certainly. Look, I believe any chronic degenerative disease is something we need to deal with on a regular basis at home. It just makes it so much cheaper and it makes it so much more effective if you repeat on a regular basis. I always watch out because there is patients who have that tendency to buy health. They buy every gadget and do too much and the stress level of doing it doesn’t work either. I’m a lazy guy in regards to health, so I try to minimize my efforts.

If I do once a week hyperthermia and I do that since 15 years now. Once a week, every second week if I’m feeling really good. If I do a lot of exercise, I do it once a month. If I slow down with my exercise because of weather or winter or whatever, and I’m more at home, then I increase the amount. I do once a day ozone treatment and it’s phenomenal. The energy that you get from it and PEMF is something I haven’t done to extreme because I do too many other things. My wife—

Dr. Pompa:
I do too many things too. I just can’t help myself. You should see my house. You know why because I’m telling you, I’ve been sick and my greatest fear is being sick again, honestly.

Marcus:
I know.

Dr. Pompa:
A lot of people buy fancy cars. I don’t have one. A lot of people buy fancy watches. I don’t have one. You know what? I have fancy biohacking equipment because my value is this. If I had a job doing retail or whatever, I’m telling you, I’d still have my devices despite—if I make $25,000 a year, I’d still have my devices. I’d figure out a way because these are valuable to me. They really are.

Marcus:
I know. I love them too. I think it’s not so much about having them but knowing how to use them wisely. For me, when I learned about ozone, I thought, my god, that’s complex and it’s so much. We packed that into a training. You learn really step by step to go through. That will turn off in a second, sorry. My coffee machine was turning off but it is really powerful when you know what you do. In Germany, I went to three clinics. They were stunning in their approach. They were giving visualization training to the patient. When you go into hyperthermia, paint a picture before from how you see your body infected with virus and whatever and then, after you do the treatment, do the visualization.

When you lay in there, realize how all your pathogens grow in here and how your immune system can gobble them up because they have more oxygen. During hyperthermia, they blow just with a little tube, I think it’s only a half-liter set. Just a little gentle oxygen burst towards the face. Not even directly nasal canula. Just towards the face so they have that extra oxygen intake while breathing. Many beautiful things and when you realize how you can set that up yourself at home, it’s phenomenal. I love it and I’ve seen—we had yesterday. I guess that’s the same for all of us. It’s our reward. When I have a client that calls me and says, Marcus, thank you so much. We were riddled with Lyme disease. The whole family was in bed. My daughter was already infected. My wife couldn’t go to work. I was barely getting out and now we’re all back to normal and just by following the protocol. It’s great.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s awesome. Well look, these are simple things that are big, big deal. You and I have been to many cancer clinics and this is what you see. You spend $50,000 or you can buy these cheaper home units. Great. The training, well Marcus has it for you. The link—

Marcus:
I’ll put it on the page. I’ll put a button underneath, hyperthermia, PEMF and ozone leading to the training and then, that will be the best.

Dr. Pompa:
Love it. I’m going to go there myself. Marcus, thank you. What a great topic for this time right now. We need these therapies at home. I mean, not just with the cancer diagnosis. This goes far beyond that.

Marcus:
You agree.

Dr. Pompa:
I’m doing these things every day or almost every day myself. I don’t have cancer. I’m all about the prevention and anti-aging.

Marcus:
When you look at the time right now, what has happened due to lockdown, due to isolation, and personal isolation, even clinics closed. We’ve never had more interest than right now. People are aware of comorbidities. Just the word and all of a sudden, they are aware that, oh, I have that too and that too. It opened up a whole Pandora box of what can I do. Then the clinics were closed. For us, it’s been the biggest breakthrough time of all times that people become aware of health, support their own health. Don’t run somewhere else but do it yourself. It’s been amazing and I love that change. Thank you, COVID.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. No, I call them COVID blessings. Actually, I do.

Marcus:
Yes.

Dr. Pompa:
There’s COVID curses and there’s COVID blessings. COVID blessing. All right, Marcus. Thank you. We’ll put the links up here. Great show, thanks.

Marcus:
Thank you so much.

Ashley:
That’s it for this week. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10:00 AM Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review or sharing the show with anyone who may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.

331: AHCC: The Breakthrough Mushroom

What AHCC is and how it can benefit every human? In this episode, expert Mimi Lindquist joins me to talk all about the powerful Japanese breakthrough mushroom called AHCC. We'll talk all about AHCC's mechanism of action, the immune intelligence, AHCC clinical research and patient healing stories.

More about Mimi Lindquist:

Mimi is an AHCC educator, Culinary Nutrition Expert, and clinical dental hygienist. She focuses on helping people heal and prevent chronic disease using mushrooms, specifically the Japanese breakthrough mushroom, called AHCC. She stepped away from the dental world, and is now committed to being the link between the clinical research behind mushrooms and the common public via social media and online education.

Show notes:
  • Mimi's Storefront .Choose 1 single bottle, 1x/month prescription, or 2x/month prescription, depending on the necessary dose (discussed in the interview). Use the code GOODHEALTH for 10% off.
  • AHCC Research Association Click on the “Research” tab to see a summary of current research.

As mentioned, AHCC is safe to use with other medications with two exceptions:

  • Ondansetron (Zofran) often used to treat chemotherapy induced nausea/vomiting
  • Sertraline (Zoloft) anti-depressant

AHCC may decrease the activity of these drugs.

If this episode has taught you just one thing, I would love if you could head on over to Apple Podcasts and SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW! And if you’re moved to, kindly leave us a rating and review. Maybe you’ll get a shout out on the show!

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
Have you heard of AHCC? If not, you better watch this episode. This is taking our space like a storm, especially in this environment of—I don’t want to say the word and get shut down, but we’ll just call it the big C word. Look, the bottom line is there is some solid, solid research on this product, and I rarely do shows just about a product. I actually had to do this one because we’ve gotten so many questions about this one product. It’s really turned out to be just an absolute incredible, incredible ingredient in this product that comes from Japan, and it’s probably why you haven’t heard of it. Check out the show. You’re going to enjoy it.

Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith, and today we are bringing you a really exciting topic. Have you heard of AHCC? If not, you are about to hear all about this amazing super mushroom. Our guest today is Mimi Lindquist, and she is an AHCC educator, culinary nutrition expert, and clinical dental hygienist. Mimi focuses on helping people heal and prevent chronic disease using mushrooms, specifically the Japanese breakthrough mushroom called AHCC. I can’t wait to learn all about this, so let’s get started and welcome Mimi Lindquist and, of course, Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome, both of you.

Mimi:
Hi, thanks.

Dr. Pompa:
All right, Mimi, this topic, gosh, I was forced to do this because there’s a need for this product. No, I mean, I’m serious. We have so many people reaching out to us about AHCC. Ironically enough, I was in Venice Beach at the time. I overheard a conversation, and this woman was really educating people in the store all about it. It struck up an interest, and I started reading about it. I too fell into this, okay, I got to get on this myself. Matter of fact, I bought a bottle right there.

Mimi:
Oh, awesome!

Dr. Pompa:
Then I started even digging more, and I became more intrigued. Yeah, no, since then, with the—I don’t want to get us shut down, but there’s a very popular virus happening. Honestly, that’s why I’ve gotten a lot of emails about this and people asking questions. I say, hey, I was actually forced to do this show because people are asking so many questions about it. Obviously, this deals with viruses. It upregulates immune cells that deal with certain viruses. This, obviously, is one heck of an immune product, maybe studies of showing one best ever. That’s obviously why it’s being—it’s been hard to keep it in stock, honestly.

Let’s find out why this is such an incredible product. Let’s figure out why this has dominated your focus. You have a mission getting this product—everybody on this product. Mimi, tell us why. I think you took time—you’re like, okay, I can’t do my job anymore. I’m completely dedicated to this product. Why?

Mimi:
Yes, oh, my gosh. Okay, so yes, I believe AHCC should be and can be in every body because every body has an immune system, and everybody comes into contact with things, whether it be toxins in our air, food, water supply, just stress, daily stress of bills and kids and this and that of everyday life. All of these things really take a number on our immune systems. Obviously, recently, in the past few months, we’re finding out that immune systems actually matter. Not just when there’s a new virus out, but every day they matter. My work with AHCC is really to just shine a light on something that should be part of a lifestyle, really. Again, you have these toxins and pathogens and everything that we come into contact with and all sorts of other viruses that we need a robust, intelligent immune system for, and that’s really at the heart of AHCC. I don’t like to call it an immune booster because it really does both. It can regulate and normalize the immune system.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, meaning autoimmune. If you have a hyperimmunity, it actually helps with that. Hyperimmunity, you don’t want to boost it, but to your point, it’s a regulator. It brings it to homeostasis.

Mimi:
Yes, exactly. It’s really making the person’s immune system more intelligent, so it has these new capabilities. Not only does it have more immune cells, but the activity is upregulated. Then it goes in and understands, okay—it assesses what does this person need? I’m going to, basically—we’re going to give it to them. In the case of autoimmune, that person actually needs a suppressed immune system. In the case of HPV, HIV, cancer, that person needs a boost in their immune system. AHCC is really unmatched when it comes to its ability to regulate and normalize the immune system.

Dr. Pompa:
Look, I think people are saying, oh, my God, what is it? What is it? You mentioned the word mushroom. We know that mushrooms support immunity. Why is this different? What is it? Why is it different than other mushroom products? You kind of said how it works. I mean, how does it do that, though?

Mimi:
Yeah, so AHCC is—it stands for active hexose correlated compound. People don’t need to remember that.

Dr. Pompa:
Even I won’t remember that.

Mimi:
You don’t need to. Really, AHCC is the least sexy name out there. Hardly anyone remembers it. Just know that it comes from the roots or the mycelium of shiitake mushrooms. Most everyone knows about the benefits of—or at least that they’ve been used for thousands of years in Chinese medicine and, obviously, in culinary. Really, Japanese researchers were studying mushrooms and shiitake specifically. They cultured the mycelium of the shiitake and witnessed a whole host of benefits on the body. It’s a really unique product in that it’s a cultured mycelial product.

It’s not technically a mushroom because the mushroom refers to the fruiting body, which is above the ground. You say mushroom because it’s related to shiitake, and if you say, oh, yeah, it’s this cultured mycelial product, zero people will know what you’re talking about. I say mushroom because it’s a wedge. People have heard of—like oh, yeah, I’ve heard of medicinal mushrooms. Then it’s like, actually, here’s the difference. Yeah, I hope that makes sense for people.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, totally, and the fact that it’s the root. Often times, the roots are really where the powerful punch is. That’s, to me, more of the root of the immune system, and it’s the root of the mushroom. I think that’s pretty cool.

Mimi:
Yeah, and really, the mycelia have been called the immune system of the mushroom, the whole mushroom organism. If you observe mycelia in a lab setting or even in nature, you see it navigating through the soil in a very pathogenic rich soil. They have to navigate, and actually, mycelia can also send nutrients to other plants and flowers and trees and things that need nutrients. It’s a very intelligent part of the organism. It’s not a plant. It’s not an animal. It’s not a vegetable. It is its own kingdom, its own kind of being, which is just incredible to me. I’m continually fascinated by them.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, nature provides the healing for us. Look, one of the parts of this for me was digging into some of the scientific literature. I was stunned. I mean, I have the ability to look at a good study versus just a study that someone’s pushing something. There was really good solid evidence around it. Talk a little bit about that because that’s what convinced me, honestly.

Mimi:
Yeah, and that’s what convinced me too. I first heard about it as a—I was a clinical dental hygienist for seven years, and one of the patients in our office got diagnosed with HPV later in life. Her naturopath recommended “a mushroom.” I thought I knew about mushrooms. I was like, “Oh, which one, reishi, chaga, lion’s mane?” Then she said the name AHCC. I was like, “What is that? That’s not a mushroom.”

I then looked up all the reviews on Amazon and Google. Then dug deeper into, oh, my gosh, there’s a whole research organization around AHCC, and it’s called the Research—AHCC Research Association. Then I started, yeah, same, digging into the clinical research, which there are 33 years of clinical research behind AHCC. It’s one of the most clinically researched functional foods in the world.

Dr. Pompa:
Why are we just hearing about it?

Mimi:
I have a few different theories on this. One is, obviously, it originated in Japan, which takes some time to get over here. Two, with a name like AHCC, it’s not meant for the average consumer. It doesn’t have a snappy, sexy name that Debra on the street is going to remember. It’s used primarily in medical schools, in research facilities, in that kind of environment where the doctors are throwing around the names. It’s not Susan or Debra on the street, even though Susan and Debra both need this every day.

Those are my big theories, and then there’s another theory that because it’s—you can literally buy this online. There’s no prescription needed. It doesn’t make, unfortunately—and I don’t know how deep you want me to go into this, but unfortunately, it doesn’t make any big companies, huge corporations and companies a lot of money. It isn’t a vested interest. There’s a lot of research going on, but they’re primarily from smaller organizations.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s true.

Mimi:
That’s growing, but it doesn’t make these big, large pharmaceutical companies any money, so they don’t care.

Dr. Pompa:
What were some of the research papers? Talk to them about different conditions and symptoms where—again, not making claims. We’re just citing the study for these specific conditions.

Mimi:
Yeah, there’s such a treasure chest of clinical data on this. The most research that’s been done around it has been around cancer. We know that cancer is a metabolic disease. It’s not just a breast, or a brain, or a lung disease. It’s a whole body disease. It’s a disease, really, that starts with the immune system and, basically, the breakdown in immune functions. Somewhere there’s a gap. Somewhere these cancer cells are able to proliferate. They’re going unchecked. AHCC, they’ve proven through countless clinical papers that AHCC increases immune surveillance, so it gives your body a really unique ability to detect these cancer cells that can go so easily unchecked. Then that’s when they start to cause problems.

I mean, there’s so many to even take one or two out, but I’ll speak to one. One young Japanese man, he was 22, I think, started having severe headaches, nausea, couldn’t stand up. He went to teaching hospital and was diagnosed with medulloblastoma, which is a really invasive type of brain cancer. It’s not just like a single tumor that you can go in and take out or radiate it. The cancer cells permeate through the healthy brain tissue, so it’s next to impossible to treat. They really had no options for him, and they eventually just told him, hey, you’re better off just going home and living out the rest of your days with your family and loved ones. When he left the hospital, some angel introduced him to AHCC. Within a matter of a couple weeks, he started to feel his symptoms dissipate, and then, in a matter of a couple months, they were all gone. He went back to the hospital and got a new scan on his brain and everything, and the doctors were floored. They had no answers for him. They were like we don’t—we can’t find your cancer, and then three years out he was checked again, still no cancer.

That’s not clinical research, but this is coming from a teaching hospital in Japan that they accumulate these stories. Sometimes stories paint the picture better than clinical data can, but there are countless stories like that. Plenty of progressive cancers where there’s no options. They’re inoperable, or they’re in a really difficult place to treat. The reason why it works so well, again, is because it’s educating your immune system, and then your body does the actual work. It’s not AHCC that goes in and attacks the cancer cells. It gets your body in a state where it’s conducive for healing.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, and I think I read some studies on autoimmune, different conditions.

Mimi:
Yes.

Dr. Pompa:
I don’t know if you provide any of that on your website. By the way, folks, we’ll have a link here on how to get the product. We always offer a discount. I think we did—you did offer a discount on it, so check it out for sure. Where can they actually view some of the other studies? There’s a lot of different conditions that I saw in the studies.

Mimi:
Yeah, you can check out the AHCC Research Organization. This was an organization that was founded in 1994. Although there’s AHCC research ongoing all of the time, this is a really great place to start.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, we’ll put that link here as well.

Mimi:
Yeah, perfect. They categorize it cancer, liver, healthy adults, chemo. One other thing that’s really interesting about cancer and the treatment is that it actually increases the positive, the benefits of chemotherapy, the anticancer benefits, and decreases the negative side effects of chemotherapy, like hair loss, liver damage, nausea, appetite suppression. All of those things that are the ugly side of chemotherapy. They’re finding that this combination is really the best combination when it comes to the clinical results.

Dr. Pompa:
What about dosing? People get their product. Let’s just say you have a more severe condition, so we’re not targeting a specific—there’s more severe condition, moderate, and just general maintenance and health. How would you dose it?

Mimi:
Yeah, so I’ll start at the bottom. For you or I that just want a regular dose of immune intelligence, it would be 2 of the 750 mg capsules, so that’s 1.5 g, very low dose. Say you were traveling on a plane, or you were around someone sick, or your kid was in a sick daycare or something. Then you would want to double that dose, so take two capsules in the morning, two capsules in the evening before meals. For someone who has intermediate or a lower level of systemic disease, say something that’s more chronic like HPV or an autoimmune disorder, you would want to start with 3 g a day, which again, is four capsules, two in the morning, two at night. Then for something more severe, say a later stage of cancer, you would want to—they go all the way up to 9 g in clinical research, but start with 4.5 g, which would be six capsules per day.

Then depending on the severity—of course, talk to your doctor, but depending on the severity, I mean, it’s such a safe food. There really is no upper limit, which sounds crazy, I know, but there really is no upper limit of toxicity. They had to basically guess because they couldn’t feed the mice enough AHCC to elicit any negative responses.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s awesome. What about just some general things, like people—sinus problems? I mean, the typical types of chronic infections people have. Allergies is a more isolated over-immune reaction. How does it work for some of these things or, like you said, even a sore throat perhaps?

Mimi:
Yeah, that’s a great question. Certainly, something like seasonal allergies, that’s still an immune response in the body. It’s an overactive immune response and so providing that intelligence for your body. Your body’s just going to know how to better handle it. Not only you’ve got immune intelligence. A couple benefits that I haven’t mentioned yet of AHCC is it also decreases systemic inflammation in the body by decreasing C-reactive protein, so that’s huge. I mean, that’s all of us, so that’s a really huge benefit for just these kind of low-level chronic things that we all deal with. Then, also, it decreases stress hormones like norepinephrine and cortisol. Things like influenza and, like you’re talking about, allergies, it can absolutely be used for that.

People come to me with—they start taking it for the autoimmune disorder that they have or HPV. They come back to me a month later, and they’re like, “Hey, my hormonal cystic acne is gone.” I’m like, “That’s amazing!”

Dr. Pompa:
I’ve actually had some people that it helped with weight loss. It broke them through. They were saying, “Is this possible?” I said, “I don’t know. Let’s find out.” It was a surprise to me.

Mimi:
Yeah, it’s probably due to it has a really great effect on blood sugar so blood sugar regulation.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah and cortisol as well.

Mimi:
Yeah, and research with diabetic patients, type 1 diabetes, there’s really great research showing blood sugar regulation, yeah, and just the inflammation. Just, again, getting your body into a state where it feels like, hey, I can heal, or hey, I could let go of this—some of this excess weight. I don’t ever advertise that. It’s like a plus, a really beneficial side effect.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I didn’t even know, so that was the cool thing. When it happened, it was like I didn’t know.

Mimi:
Yeah, another thing is—they just keep pouring out of me, but another thing is digestion because it’s such a great prebiotic. I’ve heard from I can’t even count how many people who are having issues with their digestion. They say, “Hey, I’m”—I don’t know if I can say the word poop on here. “I used to go to the bathroom, number two, once every three or four days. Now I’m going every day.” It’s just, again, your body’s just getting smarter.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, you read the next question right off my sheet. I was going to say what about gut condition? Let me take it to the next level. What about more complicated gut conditions: IBS, SIBO, Crohn’s, colitis? What about some of those conditions?

Mimi:
Certainly, with the more inflammatory and autoimmune disorders like Crohn’s, yes, I’ve definitely seen that it’s helped. With SIBO and some other gut dysfunction, I still recommend it because shiitake is one of the mushrooms that really helps to keep good and bad bacteria in the right ratios. Something like SIBO or candida overgrowth, a lot of doctors tell people just stay away from mushrooms. Stay away from fungus, all fungi, and really, that’s not right. You want to stick to the right mushrooms. Shiitake is one of them so AHCC, and another one is reishi that I recommend. I’m not going to make any sort of claims and say that this is the only product you need. You probably need to pair it with a great spore-based probiotic, but it can certainly bring down inflammation and be a good prebiotic for your gut.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Wow! That’s great. Yeah, I mean, like you said, it’s—I can see why the product has caught on, but it’s only in a small circle that it’s caught on, the circles that we run in. The general public really hasn’t heard of this.

Mimi:
That’s really why I left my dental hygiene job was I was focusing on disease prevention here, which is systemic, but I just knew there’s more to this. More people need to know about this, and I just was overcome with I feel this very passionate side of me that needs to get this out and needs to educate educators like yourself. The ripple effect is very significant. As opposed to me just touching one patient here, one patient here in my clinical office, I can teach or educate educators, and then the ripple grows exponentially.

Dr. Pompa:
When you look at the studies, are there any contraindications for it?

Mimi:
It’s great for all medications. It doesn’t interact with medications. The only thing you would want to monitor is if you are taking immune suppressant drugs. My sister, for instance, has rheumatoid arthritis. She takes methotrexate, which is a very severe drug, and so someone’s taking that, you can often titrate down. I’m not saying come off it completely. Talk to your doctor, but you may not need the full dose. I would give some caution there.

Then the other one would be it’s great for chemotherapy, but there’s two drugs where they are seeing some interaction. I forget the names off the top of my head because they’re so long and complex. I can email those to you, and you can provide that in the show notes if you want.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, we should, yeah, absolutely.

Mimi:
Other than that, there’s really no contraindications. Of course, anytime the question pregnant and breastfeeding comes up I tell them to direct message me because I don’t broadcast this. Speaking to Dr. Fred Pescatore, who is the authority in this space of educating doctors, he told me—I interviewed him for my podcast. He told me, “You know what? This is safe.” I’m going to use his words that he hasn’t seen any negative side effects with anyone that he has recommended it to. Certainly, breastfeeding, I’ve had so many women come to me who are breastfeeding that actually say it’s helped their milk supply. They, obviously, can’t keep up because there’s so much good stuff.

Dr. Pompa:
You personally, you’re, my gosh, so into this. How long have you been taking it, and what benefits have you noticed?

Mimi:
When I read the clinical research and the benefits, I ordered a bottle immediately and started taking it myself ASAP. The personal benefits, I’m lucky enough to not have any chronic disease. I haven’t dealt with anything like that, but just personally, I don’t get sick, really. I’ve been sick maybe once in the last two and a half years. My hair is growing like crazy. My nails grow like crazy. It was one of the tools that I used to heal—you wouldn’t know it now, but I had really bad cystic hormonal acne when my hormones were in the tank. This was one of the things that really helped retrieve my glowing skin. These are all external, I know, but I mean, you don’t really notice an immune system that is robust, that’s working the way it should.

Dr. Pompa:
So true, yeah.

Mimi:
We really only notice our immune system when something is out of whack. Aside from just the I know the immune intelligence that I’m getting, those external visible things. Yeah, I’ve been using it every day. I take probably 2 g a day. I haven’t missed many days in the last two and a half years. I actually created—I don’t sell them anymore, but I created an AHCC food called Brain Hits. It was like a little paleo bite, nuts and seeds and spices and 500 mg of AHCC. I sold those online, and that was my wedge into—that was my start into entrepreneurism. Then it has transitioned. I don’t really sell them anymore, but they were a huge hit. Yeah, that was fun.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, hey, why’d you give them up?

Mimi:
Without a whole bunch of capital, it wasn’t something that was going to be scalable. I was making them in my kitchen or in the commercial kitchen myself, scooping every single one, shipping them, literally, all over the country.

Dr. Pompa:
Look, hey, that’s why you need me. We could take that on.

Mimi:
I know. Maybe they’ll come back. Maybe they’ll make a cameo and come back. They’ll be seasonal.

Dr. Pompa:
We could get that out there.

Mimi:
I could make you a batch and send you some.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, exactly, that’s what I’m saying. I was like, gosh, I’d like to try those.

Mimi:
I had six different flavors. They were all named for people who inspired me, mentors of mine in this health and wellness space. One of them was Dr. Kate Shanahan, who you had on your show recently, and she’s one of my absolute favorite people. I’ve learned so much from her. One of my most popular flavors was called the Shanahan.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, that’s awesome. That is great.

Mimi:
It’s fun.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s great. Again, we’ll put the link for the product here, and also, check out the research. We’ll put that link as well. That’s a great place to start. Look, I think you’ll be amazed at the research. It’s a solid product. It really is. I can say, like you, I don’t notice anything. My immune system’s very good, but I can tell you clinically I’m putting others on it. It’s great product. It really is so big fan.

Look, you’ve dedicated your life to teaching this. What’s your end goal with that? I mean, honestly, I mean, it’s like what’s the big deal here of teaching so many people about this?

Mimi:
I’m still figuring that out, if I’m being honest. I know that it will include AHCC and mushrooms. Currently, I’m working on—I can’t say too much, but I’m working on a formulation, an AHCC product that is going to be more convenient than capsules. Not everyone wants to take capsules, and it doesn’t really allow you to interact with your supplements, with your food. It’s a food. I really want to develop products that are easier to use. Just scooping into your everyday either coffee, smoothies, or other foods and really allow kids to have this too. Kiddos need the robust immune systems as well, and if you can start them young and just make it part of their lifestyle, then they grow up just happier, healthier individuals. I honestly believe—this sounds so corny, but I honestly believe that medicinal mushrooms make people happier. We all need that.

Dr. Pompa:
I mean, there’s science around it. It affects transmitters and the microbiome. Your microbiome actually makes neurotransmitters. Yeah, it’s not just in your mind. It absolutely does. Part of your goal was to make the world happier and healthier. Actually, there’s a good tagline for you, making the world healthier and happier.

Mimi:
Noted. Yeah, it’s really just about the lifestyle. I want to get this in. I was teaching people about this prior to quarantine and everything, teaching people about their immune systems every single day, and I’m going to continue that. Even after this settles down, there’s always going to be something, and immune intelligence is not a one-off thing. It’s not a seasonal thing. It’s an every day thing.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, I think it’s the—one of the best products I’ve ever seen for immune intelligence, meaning it can bring it up or it can bring it down depending on what the body needs, and it’s intelligent enough to know that. It’s pretty impressive. Look, Mimi, I thank you so much for coming on and answering all these questions that we had so many people asking about this product. Lastly, I do have one last question. You see the product out there with some other products mixed in. What is your take on that?

Mimi:
Yeah, the people that hold the patent for AHCC, they are in Japan, and so if you see AHCC, you can trust that it’s coming from a good source. However, there are always people looking for loopholes. There are always people looking to cheat something. With these products where they—maybe it’s an immune blend, and they have AHCC in there along with other things. AHCC is a premium expensive product. If somebody is using AHCC with a blend, really be mindful of that. They could be putting a little, tiny sprinkle and getting through the loops of calling it an AHCC product. You might not even be getting what your body truly needs.

I’ve seen 50 mg, which is nothing. One of my capsules is 750. I always point people to—obviously, to my brand, Immune Intel AHCC. I know that AHCC is the only thing that’s in there. Any other subsequent products that I create will have at least that clinical dose, that minimum dose.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s important. Yeah, I mean, I read the studies. The clinical dose matters, so you have to be careful. Thanks, Mimi, for being on the show and a wealth of knowledge on the topic. Thank you.

Mimi:
Yes, thank you for having me. I loved it.

Ashley:
That’s it for this week. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv, and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, or sharing the show with anyone who may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.

CHTV 330: Global Health

Today I welcome the brilliant Dr. Zach Bush, who is an internationally recognized educator and thought leader on the microbiome as it relates to health, disease, and food systems. This is an enlightening conversation.

328: Yes, (Bad) Fats DO Make You Fat

Today's guest is the author of the classic book Deep Nutrition and her new book the Fatburn Fix.

Dr. Cate joins us today to discuss how the number one most important health factor is whether you can burn your body fat or not—more important than smoking, exercise, family history or even sleep – and how toxic body fat actually protects itself by causing sugar cravings. We also go deep over our shared skepticism of fish oils and how refined seed oils can be contributing to weight loss resistance. Learn simple things you can do now.

More about Dr. Cate Shanahan:

Dr. Catherine Shanahan is a board-certified family physician. She trained in biochemistry and genetics at Cornell University before attending Robert Wood Johnson Medical School. She practiced in Hawaii for ten years, where she studied ethnobotany and her healthiest patients’ culinary habits. She served as the director of the LA Lakers PRO Nutrition program for six years and now operates Healthy Choice Corporate Wellness and Metabolic Health from her office in Orlando, Florida.

Show notes:

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
Boy, on this Cell TV, this is a great interview. We resonate on some topics that are life changing for you all. This is absolutely important information. Hormones and beyond, but I talk about my lack of belief in fish oil. I finally found someone else that resonates with me on this. We dig in to seed oils. The dangers and how this can disrupt your ability to burn fat. As a matter of fact, we talk about how these fats can be stored as fats and it can lead to weight loss resistance, other hormone problems. Wait until you see this video. The good part is, is we give you simple things you can do now. Check it out.

Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith and today we welcome Dr. Cate Shanahan. Author of the classic book, Deep Nutrition and her new book, The Fatburn Fix. Dr. Cate joins us today to discuss how the number one most important health factor is whether you can burn your body fat or not. More important than smoking, exercise, family history, or even sleep. How toxic body fat actually protects itself by causing sugar cravings. This is a fascinating topic and I can’t wait to hear more. Let’s get started and welcome Dr. Cate Shanahan and of course, Dr. Pompa. Welcome both of you.

Dr. Pompa:
What’s up?

Dr. Shanahan:
Hi, Dr. Pompa. Thanks for having me on.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Gosh, I love all of these topics, man. These are some of my big pet peeves. I can’t wait to dig in. How many people are eating bad fats that are causing everything that was just mentioned. I just could not agree more. People have no clue. Even those of you watching this, it could be you because even healthy people are being saturated with what they think are healthy fats. We’re going to explore that a little bit deeper. Dr. Cate, I couldn’t agree more. I love that. It’s more important than smoking. It’s more important than all of these things that we think are important. The ability to burn fat. What a great title of a book because I say this. You can judge how healthy you are by your ability to burn your own body fat.

Dr. Shanahan:
Absolutely, 100%. I mean, there’s nothing more important than that because that’s what gives you energy and you can’t yourself don’t live very long if they don’t get energy. If we are jeopardizing our energy supply to our cells, we are jeopardizing our cell’s ability to function to even survive. I love that right behind you, fix the cell, get well. That’s what I’m talking about. Oh, I’m talking about fuel the cell, but it’s the same idea. The same root cause I think as we touched on before we started the conversation is that these companies have been feeding us seed oils and if we’re not paying attention, if we don’t know what they are, we’re probably eating them. I can almost guarantee.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. We’re going to talk about that, so hang in there everybody. We’re going to get there. When we look at this being more dangerous and everything, everything that you mentioned there, people have to understand that when we look at cancer, we know it’s a metabolic problem meaning really the inability to use your fat, your own body fat for energy. When we look at obviously the explosion of diabetes and all these conditions, this is what we’re talking about. This is a cellular issue, to your point. This is your cell’s inability to take your own body fat, when you’re not eating, burn it up and obviously keeps you lean.

Again, if you’re someone out there that gets hangry, that says, I just need to eat – oh, and by the way, I see, I hang with healthy people. I see them eating all the time, but see, if you ask them how many meals, Dr. Cate, they eat. They would say, oh, I always eat two meals a day. I eat three meals a day, but I see them shoveling food the whole time. Oh, and it’s the drinks too. They say organic and they’re healthy, kombuchas, but they’re constantly feeding the beast because truthfully, their mitochondria, their cells are not able to use their own fat successfully. Therefore, it’s nuts, it’s this, it’s that. All organic of course. Do you see the same thing? Even though it’s healthy is that a problem still?

Dr. Shanahan:
I do see it all the time and yes, absolutely, it’s a problem. Part of the reason that people will tell you, they’ll look at you straight in the face even and say, oh, I hardly eat anything, but as they’re carrying around a big Starbucks Frappuccino which has 400 calories because here’s why. I mean, I always – I’m like, what’s going on? How could they not literally see that? Once I came to understand that habit and the way our metabolism is driving our hunger and misleading us into thinking that, well, if we were hungry or even worse, if we’re tired or even more powerful, if we had brain fog or we’re irritable and we ate something, doesn’t that mean that our last meal wasn’t – I’m sorry.

We ate something and when that makes us feel better, it alleviates. Doesn’t that mean that my last meal wasn’t big enough? I kind of deserve. I kind of need this. I’m behind. I’m not getting enough energy because I’m not eating enough calories. The math doesn’t happen because unless you’re – let’s face it, once you’re a biohacker or you really know amounts, you’re not going to know. It’s hard to figure out how many calories you’re actually eating. You have to go by how you feel.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.

Dr. Shanahan:
That’s what I try to help people do in the book, The Fatburn Fix is to help them understand what they’re feeling. Recognize what they’re feeling for what it is which is a signal of a metabolic disaster where you can’t burn your own body fat. That happens if you get these hangry symptoms. If it’s not just ordinary stomach grumbling hunger that if you get busy, drink a glass of water, it just goes away because it’s not an emergency. The difference is that, if you get hangry, you have brain fog. Most of the time it just doesn’t go away at all unless something really buzzes your adrenaline out because adrenaline helps you dig down and release a little bit more body fat even though you might have insulin resistance, adrenaline helps fight against that. It also helps you convert – get your blood sugar up as well.

For the most part, that doesn’t happen in a normal morning at work. You have your breakfast maybe early, 6:00, 7:00, 8:00 and then, by mid-morning 10:00, you’re having a little low on your energy and that’s when a lot of people with the worst weight problems by which I mean they’ve just tried so many times. They’ve gained and they’ve lost or the worst metabolic problems by which I mean they’re on their way to getting cancer but they don’t even know it.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.

Dr. Shanahan:
They don’t even know it. I say this because everybody I know who’s had cancer at a young age, in their 30s or 40s, they were snackers or grazers. In retrospect, it didn’t even register as a thing, but in retrospect, on deep analysis of what they did, oh yeah, I carry something around in my purse. I had a bunch of stuff stashed in my car, in my drawers even if their weight was normal. This is such an important sign that is trying to tell us. It’s our bodies trying to tell us, hey, I’m in trouble.

We have to pay attention to it and that’s what I – I have a bunch of chapters devoted to that and even worksheets devoted to assessing your hunger, assessing what kind of symptoms are you getting when you’re hungry because there’s 11 of them that are super common flags that your metabolism is not in good shape and you are not able to burn your body fat. I just have to excuse my hair because people always comment on my hair when I can’t get to my hairdresser and I’m way overdue.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely. I have to ask this question though. We’re still off topic. What are their comments about your hair? Your hair looks thick and healthy. What’s going on?

Dr. Shanahan:
Oh, why thank you, Dr. Pompa. Oh, they’ll say like – well, one was it looked like a cow licked her head. Yeah, and another one is, it’s asymmetrical.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, my gosh. Let me tell you something. I hear people say – no matter what, people are critical. I get it all the time, so who cares. That’s funny. I love you already just because you’re [00:09:56]. Just the fact that you pointed that, I just absolutely love and adore you now. I always say my wife is brain-mouth. She thinks it, it comes out. That’s just what happened there. You thought, you fluffed your hair and immediately it just came right out. I love it. Now we’re having fun, see. This is a huge topic. You and I resonate so well on this on every aspect. It’s amazing. I feel like we’re in the healthy world and that’s most of my viewers. Those looking to get healthy and do healthy things, but oh my gosh, yeah, there’s so many people that don’t understand these concepts that we’re talking about here.

I want people to understand one thing and you said it, so I’m just proofing what you just said. This isn’t a fat-skinny thing. This happens to skinny people or fat people. The bigger danger here is, yes, this can keep you from burning your own fat and you can gain weight. Weight loss resistance, all the cravings, failure on every diet. Yes, this is the reason why, but you could be the skinny person who tends to, when they’re not able to burn their fat, they burn their muscle. You get what I call skinny fat with fatty organs that are arguably more dangerous and these people end up with cancer just the same. I think you’re right. The long-term gain here is obviously all these hormone issues people have along the way. Not feeling well, not sleeping, anxiety, blah, blah, blah, but cancer is absolutely the scariest part of this. You said that, you said that people end in cancer.

All right, so let’s talk about – my book and your book really jive well together and most people who watch this have my book, Beyond Fasting, because this is all my diet variation fasting strategies. Just I utilized and fixed this problem. Your book, just perfect. I love those symptoms. Let’s talk a little bit about some of the symptoms and everyone should get your book. We’ll make sure we have the link there. Talk about some of these other symptoms besides hangry, besides hungry. What are these symptoms?

Dr. Shanahan:
Anxiety is a big one.

Dr. Pompa:
I just threw that off because I knew that, yeah.

Dr. Shanahan:
Anxiety is brought on partly by two aspects of this. One is, when your brain is not getting enough energy, thought is slowed down or it’s distorted and disturbed and that is very anxiety-provoking especially if you’re in a new circumstance like you just started a job or you’re trying to find – you’re driving and you’re trying to find a place you’ve never been to before. It’s super anxiety-provoking when your brain is not working right. Then the other part of how all of this drives anxiety is that, in order to get energy to your brain, your body releases adrenaline. Adrenaline makes you jittery and anxiety-prone and you can get lost and perseverate on your failures or your bad thoughts or your bad feelings when you’ve got too much adrenaline in your system. That’s a huge one and I –

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, cortisol. It will just drive up cortisol which can drive anxiety because glucose [00:13:32] cortisol and I want people listening to be clear. The reason that she’s talking about this is because your brain can only use glucose for energy unless it burns fat, your own fat for energy that it makes ketones and the brain can use ketones. If you don’t or not able to burn your fat for energy, guess what it needs, glucose. If you’re not eating, guess what it does, anxiety. It’s either cortisol or adrenaline to get the glucose to the brain. Am I right?

Dr. Shanahan:
Absolutely. Both of those do the job and the way I look at the difference is that, cortisol is like the slow-motion version of adrenaline. Adrenaline you can have a thought and boom it will – yeah, exactly. You can feel your heart pounding and stuff like that. Cortisol is more like on a continual daily basis. It goes up and then if you are chronically stressed, all your cortisol rhythms get off as I’m sure you’ve talked about. That’s anxiety. Then the next one is brain fog and these are super duper related obviously. You’re not getting energy to your brain, so you might be staring at work and this is in a different circumstance.

You’re not necessarily in some intense, I got to figure it out situation, but more in a slow, boring-er situation where, oh, I can’t wait for lunch. Then you’re just staring at your job, your task that you have to do or whatever it is. You can’t get your head wrapped around it the way that you feel that you would like to, to get the stupid thing in front of you done. That’s brain fog and that’s how it happens. That’s again for low brain energy. Then another one is dizziness. In fact, such sever dizziness can happen that people actually have nausea and vertigo. They have to sit down. Vertigo is a severe dizziness where it seems like the room is spinning or you have to hang on to something. You lose your balance.

I’ve had a couple of folks who have – when their blood sugar drops and it doesn’t have to be – because they can’t burn their fat, their blood sugar can drop from 110 which is just a little bit high to something like 80 which is actually within normal and I’ll see that happen because I do continuous glucose monitors with some of my patients. That will be the moment where they’re like, oh my God, I’m getting one of my dizzy spells. I have to sit down. The fix for that is being able to burn your body fat. That’s another super common one. Then heart palpitations are also very, very common. Again, because of the adrenaline. Shaking because of the adrenaline.

You can also get cold extremities or somebody told me that they feel cold all over, but cold hands because also the adrenaline – well, the adrenaline makes you shaky, but it also shuts down blood flow to the extremities. Also, just having inadequate energy supply or metabolism, your blood flow is disordered. You can have all kinds of problems related to that and this is more in the long-term you can actually get erectile dysfunction, sexual dysfunction because that’s hugely blood flow dependent too.

Dr. Pompa:
Of course, yeah.

Dr. Shanahan:
Nausea is another super common side effect. Those are some of the most common.

Dr. Pompa:
How about wake you up in the middle of the night because people wake up in the middle of the night because your brain’s going, I’m not getting glucose. Why, because when you and I are sleeping, and Ashley, we’re burning up fat for energy. It takes tremendous amounts of energy to sleep for your brain. When the brain’s not getting glucose, because you can’t burn fat and make ketones, so then, what does it do? Uh-oh, I’m going to die. Guess what? It lights up cortisol or adrenaline and guess what you do, you wake up.

Dr. Shanahan:
Exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
Saved its life, it saves its brain, but you wake up and go, I can’t sleep.

Dr. Shanahan:
Now you can’t sleep which makes it worse with the cortisol. It’s a vicious cycle. It’s a downward spiral. Now that I’ve been doing the continuous glucose monitors, I actually see that the lowest time of – what happens when a lot of the folks have these issues where they can’t burn their body fat, your blood sugar will drop somewhere between midnight and 6 and it will be low for you which is too low for your brain and there’ll be a little dip and then, I’ll see it come back up again as that cortisol spikes and I’ll know that that’s the time when somebody probably got woken up and couldn’t get back to sleep.

Dr. Pompa:
Of course. I talk a lot about how toxins cause this cellular problem where we can’t burn our own fat for energy, et cetera, et cetera. I teach deeply on how bad fats can cause the cell membrane to have problems. That’s where the hormone receptors are and that causes problems in the mitochondrial membrane. Yet I think that people still don’t get it. Let’s make them get it. You mentioned seed oils. These are polyunsaturated fats. Why would these be a causative factor for this problem?

Dr. Shanahan:
Because they’re unstable. Very simply, it means that they have a tendency to react with oxygen and turn – when they do that, they turn into toxins. It’s like it’s a latent toxic compound. These are the toxins with long names like 4-hydroxynonenal and 4-hydroxyhexanal. They are known cytotoxins. You put them in a micromolar concentrations meaning like 1 millionth of a drop and that they can kill cells with that little concentration. They’re not necessarily containing those toxins when you buy them although the tests almost universally show that they have degraded. They’re that unstable. They don’t even stay stable in the shelf and then they become even less stable when they get into your body because now they’re interacting with all kinds of other chemicals that – and the more that there are, it’s like flint and oxygen and it just starts a fire basically and that’s literally what it is because it is burning.

It’s an oxygen reaction. It causes all kinds of problems. Not just the fact that we have these toxins form, but even if on the way to calming down these toxic reactions you have something called free radical cascades and these are things that are like a domino effect of damage in a cell membrane. It’s one little molecule reacts with oxygen and within a matter of a single second, you can have 9 billion other of the fatty acids in that same cell’s membrane. One single second, all become damaged and dysfunctional. They take out a huge chunk of that cell’s membrane and it's not going to be able to function normally for a while until that gets fixed.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. That’s amazing. I have a PowerPoint. I was telling you this. It says, 132 days of dysfunction because when you eat these rancid seed oils, they make their way – or vegetable oil, canola oil. It’s a seed. Anyway, they make their way into the cell membrane and literally create 132 days on average of dysfunction. That’s based on what you’re describing. These things get into your body. Okay, so I know my viewers right now are going, wait, wait, what are these oils. I know you list them in your book, but give us the oils to stay away from. Can I eat organic oil? Can I do this? Can I do that? What do we eat and how do we get the safe oils? Which ones are? Talk about that.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah. Those are all such important questions. They’re really literally the thing that could save your life. There’s three C’s and three S’s and I want everybody to try and remember them. These are the most common seed oils. We’ve got canola, corn, cottonseed, soy, sunflower, safflower. Those are the most common that you're going to find. They are also –

Dr. Pompa:
I love that. Three S’s, three C’s. That’s beautiful because I tell people those. I’m not smart enough to do that. That’s great. I can actually remember from that.

Dr. Shanahan:
My boss came up with that. I got hired this current job.

Dr. Pompa:
You’re not smart enough either.

Dr. Shanahan:
No, he came up with it. He gets props for that. Yeah, I was doing it all out of order. I was like, well, canola’s probably the most important.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, yeah, me too, yeah.

Dr. Shanahan:
They’re also knowns as the industrial term vegetable oil. Vegetable oils refers to any one of those six oils. Not to broccoli and peas. It’s great branding on the part of Unilever and Monsanto. All those folks who grow this stuff. It sounds healthy because vegetables who could beat that. My gosh, if you squeeze oil out of vegetables, that sounds like you're taking the goodness out. Don't believe it.

Dr. Pompa:
It sounds really heathy actually, yeah.

Dr. Shanahan:
Right. It does, but it’s referring to those three C’s and three S’s. Then, when you go to restaurants, there's a couple more. It’s like A, E, I, O, U and sometimes Y. The sometimes Y of the vegetable oils are rice bran oil and grape seed oil, and those are – it’s the same idea. They are super highly polyunsaturated and they generally are also highly processed because these seeds don't want to give up these oils and they have to be extracted under high heat pressure often with a solvent like hexane which is an ingredient in gasoline. Then it has to be removed so that's the refining, bleaching and deodorizing steps and so, that is where you strip out any shred of nutrition.

That’s why I can still say go ahead and have sunflower seeds. I’m not one of those people that’s against soy. I’m sure you stand on that one, but soy in moderation is fine like any other vegetable in moderation. I feel like –

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. I mean, a non-GMO soy. People say, oh, what about the phytoestrogen? It’s fine in those amounts.

Dr. Shanahan:
Exactly. If you're basing your lifeline at some of the stories, you shouldn’t do that with really anything, but – so if you want to consume it in soy, it’s fine because it's still going to have the vitamins that the seed uses to stabilize, to control the oxidation reactions to keep it stable. There’s all kinds of vitamins, antioxidants and minerals that are in the seed, but they get stripped out. They’re not in the [00:25:16].

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, I’m not against vegetable oil when it’s in vegetables. I’m not against seed oils when it’s in seeds because to your point, all these protective measures are there. I just want to – polyunsaturated fatty acids are very, very, very unstable. To your point, they’re denatured right out of the gate and that’s what we’re talking about here. When you look at your olive oil, you could say, well, where does that fit in? It’s a mono. It’s mostly monounsaturated. It could take heat better. Saturated fats can take heat even more. Polyunsaturated, just to be clear are what you're referencing.

Dr. Shanahan:
Absolutely. Since this is such an important part of my message, I have a – my website, one of the main accessed pages on it is my list of good fats and bad. If you just Google, Dr. Cate list of good fats and bad, it should come right up. It helps. It’s something you can take a picture of, keep it on your phone and refer to it. Then the document itself explains a lot of it because I'm sure you've been through this Dr. Pompa, but you probably get attacked dietitians and people who believe that canola oil is somehow special because it's got omega-3 fatty acids. They don't understand what they’re talking about honestly. When they even say polyunsaturated fatty acids.

Dr. Pompa:
I get attacked even worse than that because – and I don't even know where you stand on this and it's okay if we disagree. Fish oils or polyunsaturated fatty acids, my saying here, I love fish oil when it’s in fish, but I hate fish oil. Again, I get hate mail, but – listen, I dug at the studies. I don't believe it. I don't believe it, but anyway where do you stand on that?

Dr. Shanahan:
No, I totally agree, so I’m happy to hear you say that because it is like an outlier position because everybody feels like, oh, it’s the antidote because there's so much talk about the ratio of omega-6 and omega-3 and omega-3 being okay, well now, we need to supplement with that and I would love it if it were that simple, but really, what it looks like is that you just have to stop eating so many of the seed oils including canola with omega-3.

Dr. Pompa:
Grain-fed meat throws that ratio off. Grain-fed meat is loaded with 6, so to your point, they say Americans are 21, 6 to 1-3 meaning way too much 6. Look, my study of the membrane is, the omega-6 is the king of the membrane. It’s the most important actually, so it's not that omega-6 is bad. We’re eating all of these vegetable oil, seed oils, grain-fed meats. Now we are 6 dominant. We want a better ratio than that, but that doesn't mean you eat more 3.

Dr. Shanahan:
No. Exactly because what happens is – if we want to talk just for a second about how it builds up in our bodies, you talk about how it builds up in your cell membranes. It builds up in our body fat too and to a massive amount. The cells do their best to regulate the polyunsaturated fat content that they have because they've got a recipe that they're trying to follow and they do their best. When they say no to those polyunsaturates, where does it go? You can’t get rid of it. It goes to your body fat. There’s only two ways to get rid of it. You have to burn it or it can come out – if you’re a woman, you can feed it to your babies through breast milk. You have to burn it and so, until you can burn it, it has to be stored and of course, it's stored in your body fat.

Now if we look at how much it was in there 100 years ago before there were all these industrial seed oils, before plant fats were 80% of our fat calories, when they were really just like 10% to 20% and the rest of it came from animals, our body fat had about 2%, 3% maybe 5% polyunsaturated fatty acid. Now when they do biopsies, it has up to 25% and some maybe even as high as 30% because the last study was done when the average consumption of this stuff was a lot lower. Our body fat percentage of PUFAs almost exactly mirrors our dietary percentage of PUFAs. Right now, for some people, that’s 30%. Your body fat is going to be 30% this stuff.

One of the things that is the most important study in the book, The Fatburn Fix is the study I found. It shows what happens when – these things are the fuel for your mitochondria. When it gets released from your body fat, your mitochondria are going to burn it. They can't say no either. These things will get into your cells and get into your mitochondria and then, your mitochondria will try to burn them. What happens is, it shuts down the mitochondria’s ability to produce energy. We're talking about the energy powerhouses of every single cell in your body. If your body fat has too much PUFA in it, then every time you're trying to burn your body fat, you're going to the gym and working out, you are damaging your mitochondria. You’re shutting down your cell’s energy production from fat. What do they have as a back-up plan? Sugar.

Dr. Pompa:
That will lead to the cancer, diabetes, heart disease, all the number one killers.

Dr. Shanahan:
Exactly. What you feel is that hypoglycemia. You feel that. It’s not because you need to regulate your blood sugar by eating, it’s because your body is so dependent on sugar that you can't get enough in your blood stream to feed all the cells that need some at any given moment in time. Blood sugar is regulated. That's what diabetes is. When we can't regulate our blood sugar anymore, type 2 diabetes. If you are a non-diabetic, you can only have about 3 quarters of a teaspoon of sugar in your blood stream at any given time which is about 3 grams which is about 12 calories.

I mean, how much exercise can you do as a sugar burner. You have to have tons of glycogen in your muscle and that's how your muscles store sugar. If you’re an athlete or into fitness, all of these studies that talk about, oh my God, you need to have glycogen. You need carbo loading. It’s so important to fill up the glycogen. Those are done in people who have this problem that I'm describing where they can’t burn their body fat because they live in America. We all eat too much of this stuff unless we are looking out for them. Our athletes even. This goes back to the skinny people.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely. I mean, look, I can go – typically, I don’t even eat my first meal until 3:00 or 4:00. Half the time, I’m not hungry. [00:33:00] the busier I am, I don’t even know because my body's eating from its body fat. That’s it. It’s doing its job, but to your point, I love that explanation of how these fats end up being burned in the mitochondria. That was well said. I mean, that really files up the whole system of why you can't burn your own fat.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah. It damages the mitochondria. It helps you understand where we get all these mitochondrial diseases from. Cancer we know is a mitochondrial disease, but neurodegenerative diseases like multiple sclerosis and Parkinson’s, these [00:33:36].

Dr. Pompa:
I mean, everybody watching this, everybody that knows a little bit about health, we all agree and understand that sugar is part of the metabolic issue. Do you feel this is a bigger issue? That these fats are causing then sugar to the mitochondria because everyone’s oh, sugar’s why the mitochondria is failing and leads to cancer, but is this the bigger problem?

Dr. Shanahan:
I do understand that is the bigger problem, as a bigger problem now. When I first started – actually, when I wrote Deep Nutrition, I was like, well, they’re both really bad. Just avoid both of them, but I really feel that this is worse because –

Dr. Pompa:
Me too, by the way. Me too. We’re on a very small island.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah, very small.

Dr. Pompa:
With just a couple of people. I don’t know.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah, a bunch of crazy like Gilligan's Island. One day, they’ll rescue us and they'll be like, thank you. That's my fantasy anyway. Yeah, because if you eat too much sugar, you store it as fat. Yeah, that’s not great, but your body can control what kind of fat it’s stored as. It can store it as saturated and monounsaturated fat. In fact, that’s how it stores it. It has to store it that way. We can’t store sugar in the form of sugar. Our body fat gets converted to fat. We can’t make polyunsaturated fatty acid. That’s why we do need some in our diet which is why this whole topic is so confusing to people who have a little bit of information.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s right. We have to get it from where it’s protected because it’s so fragile. That’s why seeds are great, but you get some of the polyunsaturated fats that you need and you get it in a protected form.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yes, exactly. When we talk about the omega-3 to omega-6 ratio, I was looking at some of the traditional cultures that would be getting a lot of – potentially a lot of fat. How much omega-3 are they getting? Because somebody posted a really good question on one of my websites about what about the Eskimos because if you're saying omega-3 is so bad and Eskimos get a lot of their fat from salmon or – they said salmon, but actually, they really also got a ton of it from seal. What’s the composition there?

Dr. Pompa:
[00:36:01] more often seal truthfully, to your point.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah. That actually, according to what I could find, seals have a huge amount of a highly unsaturated polyunsaturated fatty acids like the omega-3s, the long chain ones and they've got – some are at least 15% which is a huge amount of that extremely unstable. Some parts of them may even have as much as 20%, but it's totally different because they ate it without cooking it. It was cold all the time, so the reactions were slower and the fish themselves can have all this polyunsaturated fatty acid in their body fat and the seals can because they're in freezing cold arctic water. It’s the temperature that really has a huge impact on the nature and the constitution of your body fat. What I’m saying is basically the recipe for your body fat. What is the right amount of saturated, monounsaturated and polyunsaturated?

Human beings who are in – we’ve got a warm environment most the time because we wear clothes. We need a lot more mono – more of the stable stuff. That’s why when we eat too much sugar, that’s what we make is the stable stuff. Even though sugar is not – I’m not a fan of too much of anything especially not sugar, but at least, we can basically detoxify it as long as we are not diabetic. We can still detoxify by essentially getting it out of our bloodstream, getting it out of our tissues, and storing it in safe haven in our body fat in the form of saturated and monounsaturated fat.

Dr. Pompa:
Right, yeah. Good point, right. The sugars we have avenues to burn it or store it as saturated or monosaturated. These fats we don’t. Okay. You tipped into this fish oil conversation. Fish oil is like antifreeze, the cold water. How much do we really need? I've interviewed Brian Peskin on the show. He found me because he heard me talking about the dangers of fish oil on the cell membranes. He talks a lot about the parent fats which are your alpha-linolenic, linoleic acids. Your omega-3 and omega-6, the parent fat. What people don’t understand is we have the ability to make DHA from those fats. They’re called the derivatives meaning that we don’t need fish oil.

Otherwise, what about people in land. They would die, wouldn’t they? Because they didn’t have access to fish. They didn’t have trucks that would bring it. When we look it at these parent fats, the alpha-linolenic acid and then the linoleic acid, you can take those and make these other fats that people say are so important. The brain needs very little actually. The brain needs some of those omega-3s more, but it’s not as what people think. Talk a little bit about that.

Dr. Shanahan:
We can make it. I want to talk for a second just why you hear it said so often that we can’t elongate it. That's because when you do studies in a situation where you don't recognize that the animals you're studying are getting too much PUFA and/or they’re getting trans-fat.

Dr. Pompa:
You said PUFA, that’s polyunsaturated fatty acid.

Dr. Shanahan:
Thank you.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. PUFAs are polyunsaturated fatty acids. Now you can say PUFA all you want.

Dr. Shanahan:
PUFAs go poof, they’re unstable. That’s how I like to help people remember it. The animals are fed animal chow that’s made of corn oil so they are being studied and this is how they've come to a lot of conclusions that, oh well, animals can't extend, humans even, can't extend or lengthen. They’re taking the parent molecule being at 18 carbons and the ones that your brain is made out of, being made out of, 20, 22 ,24. That can't happen in animals including humans who have too much trans-fat in our diet or too much omega-6 because we have damaged enzymes.

There’s a very important enzyme for this elongation process that’s called – I think it’s either delta-9 or delta-6 desaturase. I can’t remember. It’s been a while since I wrote the book, Deep Nutrition where I talked about it. That enzyme is knocked out by trans-fat and by high levels of PUFA and oxidation. That’s why we have this I guess mythology out there that, oh no, you do have to supplement with the long-chain stuff if you can’t eat.

Dr. Pompa:
That was well said actually, because you're right. When we looked at some of these original studies, they were like, oh my gosh, so little is converted. That’s why we need it. We have to take fish oil, DHA, and da, da, da. To your point, they didn’t look what was broken, what was stopping a conversion. That enzyme is affected, to your point by these bad unstable fats. Interesting. That’s an interesting way. I never thought of it that way.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah. That’s one of the missing pieces in so much medical and nutrition research is that, when they talk about animal studies especially the animal chow is – the fat is generally corn oil.

Dr. Pompa:
They feed them corn, grains, GMO too and all the bad stuff.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yes, exactly. Of course, it’s stale and everything about it is not what the animal would eat given the choice. The animals are every bit as damaged as we are, as the people that they’re trying to do all these experiments to help people who are metabolically damaged because of their diet. They’re giving the animals the same diet so, so much of the research is skewed and confusatory because of that. It’s almost like its fake science. It’s really, really, really crazy. What do you do about that? How do you even prove anything?

That gets to the topic of our first book. My husband and I wrote the first book together, Deep Nutrition. We talk about what is it that – we talk about nutrition science as if we're coming up with it today. As if we need randomized, epidemiologically controlled studies to know anything at all about nutrition. There’s no science. No valid science beyond what we put in our medical journals. Wait a second. People were healthier 100 years ago. Why don't we just do what they did and how can we figure that out? Do we have to –

Dr. Pompa:
Do a double-blind placebo study?

Dr. Shanahan:
Right. We can look at cookbooks. That’s what my husband and I did. I looked at dozens and dozens and dozens of cookbooks written in English from all the countries that I could get in English from 1700 and 1800. I also watched a lot of travel shows about indigenous cultures.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s a cool way to do it. First of all, they were cooking with lard but they were eating grass-fed animals.

Dr. Shanahan:
Totally different.

Dr. Pompa:
That was different, right?

Dr. Shanahan:
Yeah.

Dr. Pompa:
They didn’t have vegetable oils.

Dr. Shanahan:
Right, right, right.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s amazing. To your point as well, what studies actually have done is really screwed this whole thing up because we're studying broken people. You know what I’m saying? We’re studying broken animals. We’re studying saturated fats are bad. It's like studies have gotten us in trouble. I said, what did they do when heart disease barely existed. They were eating a lot of saturated fats. What they weren’t doing is eating these oils that we’re talking about. This isn’t rocket science. A question just popped into my mind before you said that other thing and I have to ask it. This is for our people who have struggled losing weight. Because we store – we either burn these PUFAs. We’re going to call them PUFAs now, or we store them as fat.

When they are stored as fat, we know that our good fat, stored fat, saturated or mono, those we can access and burn. Does our body have trouble taking the stored PUFAs and burning it? Does this end up to be the fat we can’t burn, the cellulite, the bad fat?

Dr. Shanahan:
There’s a researcher I spoke to at UC Davis, Frances [00:45:04]. She felt that they do have a bioaccumulation effect in our bodies that they seem to maybe perhaps be less preferentially released compared to the other fat.

Dr. Pompa:
The reason I asked the question because I didn’t know the answer. Sometimes you ask questions you know and you want them to know, but it’s like, I didn’t know the answer, but the reason I came to the question is because of my major premise. The body, all it wants to ever do is survive. It knows that these oils are not good to their mitochondria. It has to burn them in the mitochondria and it damaged mitochondria. [00:45:48] intelligence reach for the mono and the saturated stored fats first, that was my thought.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yes, exactly. I love that you do that. That kind of, well, if I were the body, what would make sense to me. That’s guided a lot of my thought process is because it seems as though nature's pretty darn smart and it's smarter, way smarter than us. Yes. It’s been at this game for a very long time and very successful. That is exactly how I think about it and so, I was actually – I didn't know how to go about pursuing the answer to that question, but I was just having a conversation around this woman's research with her. She just spontaneously mentioned that. I was like, oh, well, that is just totally fascinating. It does make sense in that paradigm.

There’s a way to look it up. It has to do with the different kind of enzyme. Some that were only just recently discovered that have a preference for a certain fatty acid at certain location in the triglyceride, but I haven’t done it. What I have done is decided. This is a hypothesis. That what happens is, when there is a certain concentration of these PUFAs, when you’ve been eating seed oils – when you’re a baby, your body fat is as nature would have it. You have more that ideal concentration, but as time goes on and we keep eating more seed oils every day, day after day, year after year, the concentration does go up in our body fat and there are studies that reflect this.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, [00:47:34] 25% versus 2 to 3% which is normal.

Dr. Shanahan:
Yes. After a certain number of decades, then it does very much reflect your dietary consumption. What happens is the fat cells then are inflamed. We have this conversation around inflammatory fat and omental fat as if it's only the omental fat, but I think a lot of folks who have enough seed oils in their body fat have – every fat cell is inflammatory because we know this. These fat cells are not healthy. They don’t produce the right hormones and they don’t respond normally to hormones and they’re incontinent. They can’t hang on to fat and so, that they will release it all the time between meals even. Even in spite of the fact that there's too much insulin in the bloodstream and a healthy fat cell would normally be keeping that in there.

That’s when people really get into trouble with their arteries. When your fat cells can no longer keep a hold of the fat that they're supposed to be storing and they're incontinent and basically just goes in for a little bit and then it comes back out into the arteries. You aren’t burning it for energy because the cells don't want it. They’re getting sugar. That’s when a person is in such a bad metabolic state. They stated having hard attacks and strokes, and they have a real trouble regulating their blood sugar at that point. They get to where there are just very, very metabolically damaged and fragile. They are, at that point, a ticking time bomb.

That can happen in your 40s if you’ve had enough of these PUFAs in your life. When I was in medical school, type 2 diabetes was a little more common than type 1. Okay, yes. I mean, my age. It was for elderly people or it was genetic. Now we’re seeing it so common in people in their 30s and even in children. There’s just no way it can just be the carbohydrates that were eating because if you look at the amount, we’re not eating any more carbohydrates than we were at the turn of the century. They’re different. There are more fructose arguably. Definitely more processed, but in terms of the volume, it’s the same.

If you look at the amount of PUFA, we were eating somewhere around what was in our body fat, 2% to 3%. Now it’s 10 times that much. How is that not the first thing that people talk about when it comes to diet. It’s just like, this is the outlier. I know sugar. Sugar is not good for you. Having a sweet tooth is not healthy. You don't have a hope of curing your sweet tooth or seriously developing a healthy relationship with sugar while your body fat is forcing yourselves to be addicted to sugar.

Dr. Pompa:
I couldn't have said it best. Gosh, we’re going to have to have you back on. We are at the top of the show and I’m like, gosh, I want to talk about this. These fats disrupt the cell membrane. They affect your detox. The reason people are failing on diets is because of this reason. You just said, it’s like – Cate, we have to write a book together but I’m going to bring you back on the show. I just want to continue this conversation. This is worthy of a part one and part 2, honestly. Because we are on to the bigger issue and there’s so few of us speaking this message. The world needs to hear it. Folks get rid of these fats in your diet. Buy Cate's book. I mean, this is – very few people know this information. Dr. Cate, thank you so much for being on here. I can’t wait to have you back. It’s funny because at the top of the show, we thought you were on Cell TV already.

Dr. Shanahan:
Circular time.

Dr. Pompa:
That's right. You’re going to be on a second time. I’m going to make sure Ashley – Ashley will put the links in for Dr. Cate. Dr. Cate, again, thank you for being on Cellular Healing TV. Fix the cell, get well.

Dr. Shanahan:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Pompa:
Bye-bye.

Dr. Shanahan:
This was fun. Thank you, Dr Pompa.

Ashley:
That’s it for this week. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. This episode was brought to you by CytoDetox. Please check it out at buycytonow.com. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10:00 AM Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, and sharing the show with anyone you think may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.