2020 Podcasts

More about Dr. Thomas Bayne, DC:

Dr. Tom Bayne is a Chiropractic Physician and public speaker dedicated to understanding and improving the gut microbiome. As the President of Microbiome Labs, Dr. Bayne travels around the world educating healthcare practitioners on the science of the gut microbiome, its relation to chronic diseases, and innovative solutions to improve the health of patients.

Dr. Bayne’s comprehensive understanding of supplement manufacturing and extensive clinical experience have given him a unique ability to formulate integrative solutions for digestive and immune health. In 2013, he worked with an elite group of practitioners and researchers to develop MegaSporeBiotic ® – the world’s first pharmaceutical-grade, 100% spore-based probiotic. This lead to the formation of Microbiome Labs, where his duties include overseeing research studies and creating innovative products to improve digestive and immune health.

In his own clinic, Dr. Bayne has spent over 24 years helping his patients optimize their digestive health, improve autoimmune conditions, and enhance detoxification. Though he is very active in his role at Microbiome Labs, Dr. Bayne continues to see patients at his clinic, PureBalance Natural Family Healthcenter, in Glenview, IL.

 

Check out Microbiome Labs products here! Take $10.00 off per bottle using promo code BIOME10

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
Real immunity starts with the gut, more specifically, the microbiome. In this time of the Coronavirus, this show is so relevant, but you know what, this show is relevant at any time. The reason why is everybody is taking a probiotic. Find out why that can be dangerous actually and what bacteria you actually can take to really make a difference in your microbiome because as this expert has taught us in this episode is taking probiotic actually doesn’t recolonize your gut at all; a matter of fact, it can do more harm. This specific spore bacteria can actually recolonize our guts. Learn what it is, how to take it, what conditions, and even what to do to prevent viruses. We’re all afraid.

Man, what a great show. This is going to be one, and I say this not every time, you’re going to want to share this. People need this information. You know why? Because most people are reaching for probiotics, but after this show, you’re not going to want to take probiotic anymore, I promise. Check it out.

Ashley Smith:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith. Today, we welcome Dr. Tom Bayne who is the President of Microbiome Labs. He’s here to discuss the latest science of the microbiome and how it relates to dysfunction and disease. Dr. Tom is a Chiropractic Physician and public speaker dedicated to understanding and improving the gut microbiome. Let’s get started and welcome Dr. Tom, and of course, Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome both of you.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, Tom, I’m so glad you’re here. This is a topic that I love. I have a very unique approach to fixing the gut via the microbiome and utilizing my diet variation, my fasting, and even the way I use bacteria. I talk about rotation. One of the first things I teach my doctors to do is take somebody off their probiotic that typically they got at the health food store that they’ve been on for many years and rotate it.

One of the first rotations we make is soil organisms, soil type of a bacteria, which you’re an absolute expert in, even developed your own product, which me and my doctors all use by the way, so thank you for that. Hey, being upfront, you have a fantastic line of products every one of us use. I’m not afraid to make that recommendation, especially because you’re our guest on the show. We’ll define what some of those products are.

I want people to walk away from this with a really opposite understanding of what they think of the microbiome, the importance of the microbiome, how to develop a diverse microbiome because, folks, it’s not what you think. It’s not as easy as just taking that one probiotic you’ve been on already. Just break it all down. Then, Tom, here we are, Dr. Tom, in this COVID, Coronavirus time when someone’s going to watch this. I believe this show will be valuable from here on, years from now even from this time that we’re in right now with Coronavirus.

I told you I did a Facebook Live last night. I talked about my fear with the new normal; the new normal being, we’re back to running from bacteria, and viruses, and pathogens. That was something that, look, we—through this last decade of science on the microbiome, we moved away from. You don’t run from these things; you don’t build them; you live comfortably with them. Those of us who have the most diverse, and more bacteria, and these things around us, the healthier we are.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
We really are. Right, exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
Anyways, tell them your story. I set the show stage here for us, but tell them your story about how you became this microbiome expert, especially in this really select topic.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
I met a girl in chiropractic school.

Dr. Pompa:
We’re already way off. Where are you going with this?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
That’s where it all started. It always starts with a girl. My wife now, my girlfriend then, introduced me to functional medicine, the idea of functional medicine in the ‘90s. Natural medicine is really what we were calling it back then.

I had the opportunity to move back to Belgium with her and work in her father’s supplement company. At a young age, I cut my teeth in the supplement industry. We were distributors in Europe for Jeffrey Bland and all of his Healthcom products in the mid-90s. I really did every aspect of the company.

I was in product development; I was in marketing; I was in doctor education. It was a great experience. We sold that company to Metagenics in the early 2000s and I moved back to the US.

What I got a taste for in Europe was research. I really felt like coming back to the states that I wanted to maintain—I felt like it was missing. I felt like in the nutrition industry that research was missing. I wanted to start a company where I could go into Xymogen, Metagenics, these different companies, and offer them the ability to do turnkey clinical trials for them like I’d been doing in Europe. I’d been working with a couple of groups here doing things like that. Luckily, I didn’t quit my day job because none of those companies wanted to do any of that. They weren’t interested in spending any of their profits on research that benefits the physicians who use their products.

At one point, we were hired by a large company in a professional space to do a deep dive on probiotics. We spent about nine months going through the science of probiotics. What’s interesting is that there’s really not a lot of science on probiotics. There’s very few human clinical studies that are done on the finished formulations. The thing in the industry today seems to be—take five to ten different strains, each with their own clinical trial based on small, low numbers of the bacteria being used in a single dose for a single symptom. Let’s put them all together and say we treat all ten of these symptoms.

That’s not science. We tried explaining that to some of the companies, they weren’t having it. Too much invested in the process so they didn’t—they weren’t willing to change. This one company was interested. It took us nine months to explain our findings. We found some spore-based bacteria at the University of London that really had some interesting data on it.

Dr. Pompa:
Explain a spore. I don’t want people just to get lost right there.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Yeah, there’s types of bacteria that as part of their defense to their environment, they can dehydrate themselves, form a tough protein outer coat, and go into essentially an inert state while they wait for their environment to change. When their environment becomes more conducive to what they’re looking for, then they come out of their spore state and they are active again. There’s a difference between spore-based bacteria and soil organisms, though. A soil organism is actually a functioning bacteria that does most of its work in the soil. Now, a spore-based bacteria, they use the soil as a vector to move from host to host, but they themselves are actually, they’re actually human bacteria. They’re actually commensal bacteria, so there’s a slight difference.

You do see some spores in products that are marketed as soil-based organism products, but that’s their misuse of the term. These are gut commensal organisms. That means they’re active when they’re in the gut. We have data that shows that they function in the gut of insects, amphibians, reptiles, mammals, everything. It’s not just a question of is it okay? Does it live there? We’ve actually been able to show that there are receptor sites in the GI tracks of all of those organisms specific for these Bacillus-based spores.

It’s a whole different way of looking at probiotics. We’ve been taught we’re going to reseed your bowel with good bacteria. There’s zero science that supports that notion. Many of the probiotics that are in the marketplace are dead on the shelf, but that’s okay. They’re okay being dead because they’re really cell signaling molecules.

They’re not probiotics. They don’t go into your digestive tract. They don’t change the microbiome. They may trigger a symptom; they may trigger your immune system to correct a symptom like bloating or gas, but you’re not shifting the microbiome.

Our goal was what if we could really shift the microbiome? What would happen? That was a question we built the company around. You’ll see us as we’ve gone through, it’s been an interesting process and not one I could have even dreamed of as far as the doors that have opened up and the research possibilities have dropped on our laps.

What spores do is they recondition the bowel. They’re transient organisms. They spend three to four weeks, 21 to 27 days in your digestive tract. While they’re there, they’re just kicking butt. They use quorum sensing to talk to the bacterial environment. Then they get rid of the bad guys. Sometimes the bad guys are actually the good guys; they’re just in the wrong place like small intestine bacterial overgrow.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s right.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
They have the ability to communicate with the bacteria. If they can’t coax them into doing what they should be doing, they’ll kill them off. They have the ability to produce 25 different antibiotics. They use very specific competitive exclusion techniques against yeast and bacteria. What they do is that by getting rid of the bad guys, and then in the process of doing that, they make waste products that feed the good guys. That’s science. That’s changing the microbiome.

I’m going to give you this bacteria and it’s going to go live in your—thank God that doesn’t work, right, because we would be killing people. We would be creating redundancy in their microbiome. We would be creating—instead of having thousands of beneficial bacteria in their gut, they would be having ten.

Dr. Pompa:
I call it monoculturing.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Right, fortunately, it wasn’t what we were telling people it was because if it was, we would have been creating—we would have been doing harm. There’s no harm in giving those dead bugs, but you’re not changing the microbiome; you’re treating symptoms. That’s okay. I don’t have a problem with people who choose to treat symptoms. It’s not my choice; it’s not what I do. I want to get to the source. I want to change the situation and see—then see what heals when the microbiome changes.

Dr. Pompa:
Again, the difference between the probiotic that someone buys in the store, typically, it’s dead. It still acts as a signal in some respects, but it’s not changing the microbiome. The spore type if you will do change the microbiome and even survive the gut acid.

Let’s say you were lucky enough to actually get a very active colony of product. Most of that is killed. Explain that because the spores, they survive it. They can deal with the high acid; they can deal with high temperatures. You don’t have to keep them in the refrigerator. They can deal with the stress out here and in here. Explain that.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Yeah, the spores are—they’re so resilient to their environment. We coevolved with these things. The human immune system is actually dependent on early exposure to spores for the development of the immune system. It’s a fascinating thing.

When you look at the lack of bifido-based products that are in the market, if they’re alive—as you say, oftentimes, they’re not. If you get a good one that’s alive—and many in the professional market, they are alive when we analyze them on initial testing, but the minute they hit the stomach acid, they’re dead, with a few exceptions. Lactobacillus acidophilus, it likes acid. It’s dead instantly when it hits bile salts.

When we see some of the survivability studies on Lactobacillus, they just show you the stomach acid. It will live in the acid environment in the stomach; Bifidobacterium will not. If it hits just the bile salts, it’s just dead within seconds.

There’s data out there that shows in some cases, the research shows that the dead bacteria actually performs better than the live bacteria. It’s the DNA from those bacteria that are getting to the Peyer’s patches, it’s getting to the [00:13:23] triggering a symptom in the immune system and then changing a symptom. There’s good data on Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG and the treatment of chronic urinary tract infections in women.

Swear to God, this is a great story. A rep comes in and starts talking to be about the study. I’m like, well, how does this work? He goes, well, let me tell you. He’s like the Lactobacillus rhamnosus GG goes down and then gets into the vaginal tract.

Whoa, where’s that tract? I missed that anatomical tract from mouth to vagina. He’s telling me that the bacteria go live in the vagina and then they fight off the infections of urinary tract infections. Now, in no way, shape, or form do I want anybody to hear me disputing the findings of this study, but I vehemently dispute the mechanism they’re telling me why it worked.

Dr. Pompa:
See, that was what was marketable because people could process that. They go, oh, yeah, that makes sense. It’s here and it goes there, okay, got it. In reality, it’s not so simple.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It’s not that at all. Those dead bacteria, they get to the Peyer’s patches. It triggers an immune reaction. Downstream, that shifts the PH of the vaginal tract. That prevents it from being an infectious receptacle.

Dr. Pompa:
Just these Peyer’s patches that you’re talking about in the gut, that’s where you make macrophage, which, first line of immune system to the point of why it works. It affected that, which we knew bacteria affects that. Then it produces these white blood cells.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Reduce the system, which is great. In situations where I’ve got somebody with an acute urinary tract infection, go to Whole Foods, go to Walgreens and get some Lactobacillus rhomnosus GG while we give you the MegaSpore so that we can recondition your microbiome to [00:15:14] out in the first place and we’ll get to the source of why you’re having chronic urinary infections; in the meantime, let’s treat the symptoms so you’re feeling more comfortable.

With the spores, when they get through the stomach acid, they’re in a 100% spore form, so they survive through. Within six minutes of being in the small intestine, they come out and they start reconditioning. In the lower part of the small intestine, they re-sporulate.

We don’t know why this is, but we do know that process is what triggers the stimulation of the Peyer’s patches in the gall. It creates that immune reaction that we’re looking for. That’s that long-term exercise to our immune system that we want to give it with the probiotic.

Dr. Pompa:
You had brought up SIBO earlier. That’s when you have—bacteria are very important in the large intestine; they can even be bad guys for that matter. Some of these bacteria end up in the small intestinal tract. We call it SIBO, small intestine bacterial overgrowth. Do these spores affect those though; meaning, if they don’t activate until maybe the large intestine or the lowest part of the small intestine, can they still be effective against that condition, which by the way, is perhaps 80% of irritable bowel syndrome?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It’s the most underdiagnosed condition, in my opinion, in clinical practice. First of all, the answer is yes, it’s the best probiotic that you can use for small intestine bacterial overgrowth.

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, because small intestine bacterial overgrowth, regular probiotics makes it worse typically.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Typically, right. That’s a histamine reaction usually. The spores because they re-sporulate in the lower part of the small intestine, this gives the immune boost which is good for the small intestine bacterial overgrowth patient, but you’re not getting any competitive exclusion where it’s in spore form. If you’ve got the rare type of SIBO where you’ve contracted an infection and it’s living in your small intestine, MegaSpore will destroy it 100% of the time.

The only problem is that’s probably 1 out of every 1,000 SIBO patients that you see. The other 999, it’s an ileocecal valve issue where the good bacteria is crawling back into the small intestine from the large intestine. In that scenario, we do recommend that patients still use an antimicrobial, especially in the beginning, because there is no competitive exclusion at that large—at the lower part of the small intestine where the bulk of that infection is.

Dr. Pompa:
Right, yeah, it is. It’s typically right there. Okay, that was a great answer. These spore types of bacteria, they can last the stomach acid.

I’ve been asked this question many times, can I take them with my antibiotic if they’re more resistant? Other bacteria, antibiotic, you might as well not even wait. You might as well just wait until you’re done. What about these with the antibiotics?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
First of all, we’ve been working with the Cal State, Sacramento. They’ve got a microbiome laboratory at the university. We did a contribution to them last year. We’ve been working with them. We have been doing some actual specific antibiotic studies. We hope to have it though sometime in the fall, although, obviously, certain things right now have slowed down, but we’ll have specific information about the different antibiotics.

Here’s the thing; what we’re seeing in the small-scale things that we’ve done is there’s no destruction of the spores with antibiotics whatsoever. They actually produce antibiotics on their own. Some of the patients just can’t get past that, even some of the docs can’t get past it. We’ll say, all right, fine, take it at a different time of the day then the antibiotic. In our experience, we don’t see any issues one way or the other. You’ve got both of them in your hand at the same time; you take them in the same mouthful.

Dr. Pompa:
I clinically have experienced the same thing. I wanted to ask the question because I get asked the question.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It would be like if you’re producing something; you’re producing an enzyme or something like that and then dying of an enzyme. It can’t work that way. The spores make single antibiotics that are very specific and very geared toward specific types of bacteria. It’s not a broad-spectrum antibiotic like what is typically used as a drug.

We’ve tested it. Like you say, your own clinical experience, my own clinical experience too, it works, but we’re working to get the type of data that we need so that we can definitively say that. We should have that by the fall.

Dr. Pompa:
I rarely do Cellular TVs where I sell a product; it’s about bringing information. In a case like this, we have to tell them about the product because right now, if I were viewing this, I’d be like, okay, this is just a bunch of information. What is the product? I’m not afraid to do that right now. I’m selling you a product right now, folks. It’s called MegaSporeBiotic is the product you created.

I’ll even give you an opportunity. Again, I hate sales shows because this is an information show, but you have several products that I utilize clinically, so do all my doctors. I want to give people a chance to understand each one of them because these are products that are very different from what you’ve ever used. Let’s talk about the MegaSporeBiotic.

You already said why it’s different than a probiotic. There’s other spore products coming out on the market. Why’s yours different? Okay, I’ll give you the chance to say that.

Then I want people listening to be able to utilize it. Then I want you to say, here’s how you dose it for certain conditions. To be clear, you’re not treating any condition, but let’s help the people understand how to use it for certain conditions and then use some of the other products that will complement it. I want people to walk away with something here. Why’s your product better than the other spore products that are coming out?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It’s simple. It’s very simple. It’s a really cool story. You’ll love the story already, even if you’ve only heard a little bit of it. It’s a great story.

If the spores aren’t in spore form, they don’t survive the stomach acid; they don’t survive bile salts. They are useless and just nothing worth—not useless, but they’re nothing more than a cell-signaling molecule like your typical lacto-bifido-based bacteria. We perfected the science of keeping the spores in spore form. We are the only product that is 100% spore form.

What we do is we take products off the shelves and we test them. Some of the probiotic spores that are in the marketplace, some—there’s some single spores that are in the retail brand. We’ve tested them at times and they were actually 0% spore form.

What happened when the whole spore thing became part of the supplement industry, a couple of companies just ran and started distributing products. They initially were selling it as Lactobacillus sporogenes. They just made up a name with it, okay, but they did not work on stabilizing the product.

The group that we work with, when they got the information, this was at the same time everybody got the information, they took the bacteria and they were like, holy cow, these are so unstable. We can’t sell this product. It took them almost seven years to figure out how to get them 100% in spore form.

You have to be able to grow the bacteria under fermentation. It’s got to be viable. It’s got to be in its vegetative state. It’s got to be functioning, making babies, doing what bacteria do. Then you have to shock them back into spore form. We have a proprietary tensed up process to shock them into spore form. That’s the difference.

What happens is maybe when you start, maybe you’re only 30% non-spore form, but as it sits there and they sit next to the other ones that are in spore form, it triggers the other ones to come out of their shell. Then by the time that patient gets the product to take it, it’s almost no spore form. That’s the main difference.

The other thing is we have the worldwide exclusive distribution rights for Bacillus Indicus. That’s a very unique product. That product actually produces RDA levels of carotenoid antioxidants in your intestinal tract right at the sight of absorption. Carotenoids like Lactobacillus and Bifidobacterium are also very sensitive to the stomach acid.

The RDA of beta-carotene is 800 milligrams. That’s actually with the hope that eight are going to slip past your stomach acid and be absorbed. We’re actually producing 800 milligrams of beta-carotene at the site of absorption, a very unique strain. That’s another—

Dr. Pompa:
You sell a product, you can say the product’s name, the HU58, which is specifically that one strain. That’s how incredible it is.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Actually, the HU58 is the Bacillus Subtilis.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, the Subtilis, yeah.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
The Subtilis is the biggest, baddest, competitive excluder and immune modulator in the formula.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s the one I was thinking. The other one is only—I don’t want to get people confused with my mistake. The MegaSporeBiotic is your main flagship product. That contains the first one you said.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It contains five strains.

Dr. Pompa:
This is one of them.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Indicus, HU58, too; it contains clausii, Bacillus clausii, Bacillus coagulans, and Bacillus licheniformis. It’s a five-spore blend. HU58, it’s interesting how that came about. HU58 is a massive ammonia devourer. It eats the bacteria and the ammonia itself. We created a high dose of just that product that we use in patients with liver failure and excessive amounts of ammonia in their system.

We did a clinical trial with that in 2018. We’ve got another study that’s going on. There’s parts of the United States that have very high levels of unemployment and alcoholism and there’s lots of liver failure. The treatment for those patients is almost as bad as the disease itself. We’ve got some good leverage with a couple of GI centers that are doing research for us on liver failure, hepatic encephalopathy, with the HU58 strain.

Dr. Pompa:
You have another product, the ProFlora. Explain that one. Let me back up though before you do that. Let’s talk about the flagship product, the dosing.

Where would somebody start with the MegaSporeBiotic because we typically have to start low because oftentimes, they can get a die-off, right? Then we work up to higher doses. How high for certain conditions? Go ahead.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
You know what’s funny is that I probably had 100 to 125 people on the product before I saw anything negative. Here I am, I get the first 50 on, and all I’m seeing are the results. I’m not getting anybody who’s complaining of anything bad. I’m giving them the full dose right out of the gates.

I got on a call with the people, the scientists who created the product. I’m like, hey guys, I don’t see any negatives here. I hang up the phone and the next three people that walk in the door are all having really significant die-off reactions. I’ve come to the conclusion—in all of my experience, I’ve come to the conclusion that about 15% of the people have a problem with the product. Of those 15%, 80% of those people, it’s a very mild thing.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s mild, yep.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
A little bit of a loose stool, crampy thing maybe, that’s about it. With those other 20%, they’re the ones that keep you up at night. They’re the ones that are having really strong detox reactions: lots of explosive diarrhea, intestinal cramping. Those seem to be the big ones, but we’ve seen everything that you would see with Herxheimer reaction from rashes to headaches and everything else.

What we recommend across the board because I can’t muscle test it, I can’t look in their eye and see who’s going to do it, I can’t take a blood test and see who’s going to detox, I can’t figure out who it’s going to be, so we just put everybody on the titration schedule. The full dose is two caps a day taken with a meal. The titration schedule is take one cap every other day for a week; then the next week, take one cap a day for the week; then the next week, you go up to your full two week—two cap a day dose.

When we get to two caps a day, the dosing is at the same time; we don’t split it. The reason is that stimulation of the Peyer’s patches in the immune system of your gut, that’s a numbers game. Until we get to that second capsule, we’re really only getting competitive exclusion and nutrient production; we’re not getting that immune-modulating benefit that we’re looking for. In many autoimmune patients and things like that, that’s critical, so we’ve got to get to that. If we separate the dosing, we do one in the morning, one at night, we don’t get that stimulation because it’s not a high enough dose. When it comes to—there’s that dose, two caps a day. That’s it. I keep it at that.

If I get into a situation where I feel like I need more help, I add one or two caps of just the straight HU58 because if I need help, I need help with competitive exclusion and immune modulation. That’s what the HU58 does. Rather than increasing all five of the strains—I’m already getting RDAs of the antioxidants; I don’t need more of that. What I need is I need more competitive exclusion and more immune modulation. In those cases where I’ve got somebody on two a day, I’ll then start to add one a day of the HU58, and then two a day of the HU58.

This gets into the conversation about dosing. Tom, your products only got 4 billion per serving; my lacto product has got 50 billion, 100 billion, 900 billion. That’s all marketing. There’s no study that shows 50 is better than 20 or that 900 is better than 100. There’s never been a study that shows that.

It’s about an effective dose. You’ve got 100 trillion bacteria in your gut. If you’re going to drop 100 billion Lactobacillus in there, it’s like a drop in a pond. Right now, if you don’t take any of the spore-based probiotics, you’ve got about two million spores in your gut.

When you drop four billion and you’re giving 2000 times the native population, that’s what creates a stimulation of the Peyer’s Patches. If you could get a Lactobacillus Bifidobacterium-based product and you supplemented it in those terms, you would have to give people ten bottles of the product a day to get that magnification of the dose that’s already there. I’ve gotten off track a little bit there.

Dr. Pompa:
No, you got it. On the dosing, you explained it really good actually. Just two; listen, work up to two, two of the MegaSporeBiotics at the same time because you need that number hitting the Peyer’s Patches at the same time. If you’re a chronic case, instead of increasing more MegaSpore, then add the HU58. Now, what about the RestorFlora, which is another product that has I think three of those five? When do you use that?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It’s got three of the five and then it’s got some boulardii in it. Full disclosure, I’m just warning the [00:31:37]. I’m a chiropractor and I’ve got this functional medicine practice. I’ve got this great product of MegaSpore.

I’ve got this clinical study going on the HU58 with hepatic encephalopathy. For the first time in my career, I’m starting to see in my practice people with C. diff. I’m seeing older patients that have gone in for hip replacement, a knee replacement, and now they’ve got C. diff.

I start going, what can I throw at this? The first few seemed to response pretty well just to the MegaSpore, but I was seeing relapses, so I started working with the HU58 and the MegaSpore in combination. There’s a lot of good data on boulardii and C. diff. I put together the RestorFlora. Those three products are my C. diff protocol.

If somebody’s on C. diff I give them—well, first of all, I encourage everyone to intermittent fast, so I try to keep them at two meals a day. What I do is I give them two caps of the MegaSpore in the morning, two caps of RestorFlora in the afternoon, two caps of HU58 in the evening. The spores function better when there’s protein and sugar around.

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, that’s what I wanted to talk about too is your recommendation is taking these after meals which is really different than other probiotics also.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Exactly, right. We found that the spores function about 20% more when they’re in the presents of sugar, in the presence of protein and sugar. When they get in the small intestine, there’s food for them, they get all excited. They function with a higher degree.

Again, ultimately, it comes down to studying your product. If you don’t study your product, you can’t say what it does. I can tell you what my product does in the ascending colon, in the transverse colon, in the descending colon. I can tell you what it does in the small intestine. I can tell you everything about it. Nobody else can tell you those things because they don’t do just the basic research to show you, hey, here’s a clinical model of a human intestinal tract. Let’s observe what happens when your probiotic is in that intestinal tract.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, I couldn’t agree more. It’s why I love your product: it’s studied. You really help people with when and how to take it. That’s why I wanted to cover it.

All right, let’s hit the 800-pound Gorilla in the room at least this time of year: the COVID, the Coronavirus. I have been doing a webinar and like I said, my Facebook Live that I did. It had major—at least 150 and some thousand, it might be 200 now, I don’t know, views on it just in the last 24 hours, but because I talked about real immunity.

I talked about this new normal of now running from bacteria, spraying everything, wearing masks is my concern that this can go on, this new fear of bacteria, viruses, pathogens in general. Everyone’s sterilizing when the last decade has shown us that we don’t kill these things; we live with them, an immune system that is around more bacteria. I even quoted some studies: kids growing up on farms being basically—the more microbes they encounter, especially as children, the more stronger their immune system. This Corona thing can take us far off that, Tom. Ten years of all this research and now everyone’s going to be running from this. What are your concerns about that?

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Undone in one month, all that good progress, undone.

Dr. Pompa:
Undone in one month, yeah.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It’s dangerous. It’s a dangerous slope we’re on. It feeds the vaccine industry. That’s really who benefits from the story, that’s it. Patients don’t benefit.

The interesting thing, in 2017, we published our first study. That was the human leaky gut study. We built a model for how to create a leaky gut in healthy people. Then we fixed it with our probiotic. Awesome, cool study.

This is the thing because my story hasn’t changed; the world around me has. What that study shows is that the amount of LPS, lipopolysaccharides, circulating in the bloodstream at five hours after a meal was reduced dramatically in patients that took the probiotic. In patients who did not take the probiotic, it actually increased over time. The difference between the people taking the probiotic and the people not taking the probiotic was huge.

The LPS is the—this is essentially the low-grade septicemia that happens after every time we eat. What happens is the LPS spills out and then there’s a cascade of cytokines that are created in response to that. That’s how our innate immune system deals with the really bad thing of septicemia. That’s that process. Eating creates a low-grade septicemia in just about all of us.

What happens? We eat, LPS goes out, and there’s a short increase in the cytokines for a period of time. That process is at the root of everything you want to talk about right now: any autoimmune disease, any digestive disorder.

Dr. Pompa:
It drives inflammation.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
It drives inflammation. What we’re seeing with the COVID-19, what we’re seeing with the people who end up on ventilators, we’re seeing this cytokine storm. What that means is that there has to be an underlying cytokine activity going on before they get the virus. In that scenario, leaky gut is the Number One cytokine producer across the board. When you look at people like, oh, this guy who’s 30 years old, and oh man, he was really healthy. No, he wasn’t.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s right.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
He was not healthy. Sorry, I’m sorry to say this, but healthy people don’t have the existing cytokine levels that trigger the storm.

Dr. Pompa:
Absolutely.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Even though he looked healthy, even though he was a fit guy or whatever, he was not healthy. Was it the leaky gut? Maybe. Was it early-onset autoimmune disease that was really being driven by a cytokine storm from leaky gut? I don’t know, but there was something going on.

The story doesn’t change. Here we are, the best thing that you can be doing to improve your immunity is to have—fix your leaky gut. It’s to reduce the cytokines that are associated with the spillage of LPS after a meal. That’s the Number One thing that people should be doing.

Dr. Pompa:
Simply put too, people today—it’s so funny, you have to use media to help educate; meaning, you go, oh—you’ve seen those yogurt commercials, 70% of your immune system starts in the gut. Oh, yeah, you’re right. It’s like, okay, great, we’re going to piggyback on that now because that’s—that allowed people to get this before, before those darn yogurt commercial. It was very difficult for many people to understand that your bacteria here affect your immune system. Don’t understand that, but now yogurt companies have made it a little bit easier for people to get that.

Obviously, you’re explaining a much better scientific approach to why this would be good to prevent a virus of any sort, obviously, the Coronavirus, because it really is affecting a very select group of people. When you look at diabetes, heart disease, older people, obese people, they have one thing in common. It’s overproduction of inflammation to your point.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
Then that creates this overreaction in the lungs, the cytokine reaction. That can obviously, lack of oxygen, shut you down and kill you. Again, when looking at all these things to do to build immunity, real immunity actually starts with your microbiome. Again, that’s my problem because there’s studies showing this microbiome here affects and communicates with this microbiome here, or this microbiome here, here. Therefore, we’re destroying it Number One with all the hand sanitizers. Then we’re not getting—we’re trying to be sterile, which we know long-term is a fail as far as improving our immune system, so a lot of problems here.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Big time. It’s interesting, from that one study, from that one leaky gut study, we were contacted by over 30 different researches. The reason we were contacted by them is because each of those researches in their own specialty had run into a wall. The wall that they ran into was how to we reduce LPS in the circulation because that’s the cause of the autoimmune disease that I’m doing research on. That’s the trigger that takes somebody from hyperglycemia to diabetes.

These aren’t my [00:41:01]; that’s the American Diabetic Association that’s saying that. They’re saying the Number One thing that we should be looking for diagnostically is LPS. That’s the main driver taking somebody from hyperglycemia to diabetes.

I was in my office one day with a patient and my phone rang. It was unusual for my—for somebody to get through, but this guy somehow made it past my front desk. It turns out, he’s one of the leading researchers in the world on melanoma. He does checkpoint therapy, immunotherapy.

He spent his entire life, Harvard undergrad, Harvard Med school, Yale post-doc, Stanford post-doc. The guy is the man. From the beginning, he’s been saying the only difference—checkpoint therapy works 20% of the time, so 20% of the time, people with Stage IV cancer take this therapy and they are healed from Stage IV cancer; it’s pretty remarkable. There’s only a few types of cancer it works on, but none the less, it’s pretty remarkable.

His question was when he was in post-doc was, why? Why is that? He’s done 35 years of research and the only thing he can figure out is that people that it works in have high levels of short-chain fatty acid producing bacteria in the microbiome. People who don’t, it doesn’t work. People that have none, it actually makes them—the medication actually makes them worse. That’s about 10% of the population that takes—

Dr. Pompa:
Just so people understand, certain bacteria, obviously, these spore types that we’re talking about help us produce more of these, but they actually poop out if you will. There’s a waste they produce that produces a short-chain fatty acid that I’ve read can make up to be like 30% of our energy, period. If you don’t have—

Dr. Tom Bayne:
One hundred percent of the energy of the colonocytes of your colon.

Dr. Pompa:
I’m talking about just your cellular energy.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
The cellular energy, yeah, at least. I think that’s an understatement.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, yeah, but people don’t get that. It’s like if you’re not producing these bacteria, you’re not making these short-chain fatty acids that Number One also feed your other bacteria, so it’s a food donor bacteria, helps the mucus linings being stronger. That’s a stronger immune system. Creates more diversity, and obviously, gives us this immediate cellular energy which, man, there’s a lot there.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Yeah, exactly. His feeling is that if we can get the same type of change in cancer patients that we saw in healthy patients, then in his specialty, the survivability rate should go over up over 50%. That would be an initial loading period before the immunotherapy starts, then the immunotherapy with the probiotic and prebiotic in combination, and then monitoring their improvements. It’s fascinating.

I had no idea what doors were going to open when we did that study showing the reduction in endotoxemia, but it’s been quite remarkable all of the things that have come about. We’ve got 15 studies that are going on right now. We’ve got 14 studies that are done waiting for publication. We’ve got five studies that are published. There’s nobody in our space doing that stuff.

When I go into a conference and I’m at A4M, there’s all these other companies there. I can stand there and say no one in this room is doing the level and the types of research that we’re doing. We’re doing it at Cleveland Clinic, NYU. We’re not doing these in our garage; we’re doing this in high-level teaching universities and teaching hospitals throughout the US and Europe. It’s the real deal.

My thing is I go to these industry-wide meetings. That’s all I say. They’re like, hey Tom, can you say something else. I’m like, no. Can you start doing some research? Can you stop feeding me marketing and give me something that I can definitively show my patients is going to change their life? Until you do that, you’re not really doing anything for me.

Dr. Pompa:
No, Tom, that’s why you’re on this show, man, because I’ve been through what’s real, what’s not, the marketing versus real, science around something. When I started reading the science, I immediately was convinced. I immediately became more critical of the garbage that’s out there around probiotic and just the deception that’s around it.

Look, these bacteria are important. This is real immunity we’re talking about today. Everyone’s jumping on the bandwagon at this time right now with the Corona. Everyone’s hocking a product one way or another, but what you’re talking about, Tom, the science supports. This is real immunity here.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Exactly.

Dr. Pompa:
Listen, I appreciate it. We have the links. I’m sure Ashley has already put out the link on how to get MegaSpore and the products that you mentioned every time you mentioned them. We’ll have it in the show notes as well how to get the product. Tom, thank you for coming on. Just a wealth of knowledge on this subject I appreciate you bringing, especially at this time.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
Hey, I love what you do. I love supporting you in any way I can, too. Keep up your good work. We need more people like you. We need to get the truth out there. Thank you for everything you do, too.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, appreciate it. Thank you, Tom.

Dr. Tom Bayne:
All right, take care.

Ashley Smith:
That’s it for this week. We hope you enjoyed today’s episode. This episode was brought to you by CytoDetox. Please check it out at buycytonow.com. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10 AM Eastern.

We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv. Please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, and sharing the show with anyone you think may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.

I'm excited to welcome back the “girlfriend doctor” herself, Dr. Anna Cabeca. You may remember her from her popular episode #262 last year. Dr. Anna is here today to discuss her “Keto Green” way, which focuses on ketogenic eating paired with an alkaline diet and intermittent fasting. Her Keto-Green method naturally manages your body’s most important hormones, and if followed properly, will help address and correct the symptoms and side effects that come along with imbalanced hormones.

More about Dr. Anna Cabeca:

Dr. Anna Cabeca is an internationally-acclaimed menopause and sexual health expert, global speaker and pioneering promoter of women’s health. She is Emory University-trained and triple board-certified in gynecology and obstetrics, integrative medicine and anti-aging and regenerative medicine, and an USA Today and Amazon #1 Best Selling Author of “The Hormone Fix,” a diet and holistic lifestyle program for menopausal women.

Also noteworthy, is her Keto-Green diet and lifestyle that focuses on ketogenic eating paired with an alkaline diet and intermittent fasting. Her Keto-Green way naturally manages your body’s most important hormones, and if followed properly, will help address and correct the symptoms and side effects that come along with imbalanced hormones. Her new book Keto-Green 16 releases May 5th.

Dr. Anna is known as The Girlfriend Doctor helping women combat negative hormone-related symptoms and implement natural and easy-to-follow solutions that will have them feeling happier, healthier and confident. In her spare time, Dr. Cabeca hosts the highly-regarded series “The Girlfriend Doctor Podcast” featuring compelling podcasts focused on a wide variety of important health and wellness topics.

Dr. Anna’s compelling story is inspired by her own life experiences; she went through menopause twice – the first time at 39 after suffering a tragedy of losing a toddler, and then again at 50 years old. She was actually able to reverse her own early menopause at 39 (and the probability of doing this is about 1%!), and went on to conceive a beautiful daughter.

Dr. Cabeca has reached hundreds of thousands of women around the globe, inspiring them to reclaim their optimal health and realize they can journey through menopause and find more purpose and pleasure than they ever dreamed possible. She balances her passion for women’s health with faith, grace and skill, while raising her four daughters, and leading the non-profit foundation she created in honor of her son, Garrett V. Bivens, who tragically died as a toddler.

Dr. Cabeca infuses her presentations with humor, raw connection and passion, and she impacts lives each and every day. Follow her journey on her blog at DrAnnaCabeca.com and connect with her on Facebook and Instagram.

If this episode has taught you just one thing, I would love if you could head on over to Apple Podcasts and SUBSCRIBE TO THE SHOW! And if you’re moved to, kindly leave us a rating and review. Maybe you’ll get a shout out on the show!

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
Green keto, have you ever heard of it? It’s not vegan, vegetarian keto, although she talks about how to do that, so check it out. What about alkalinity. When should you be alkaline? When should you be acid, how to achieve it? This is a great interview because we talk about the aspect of alkalinity on how that affects your hormones inability to perhaps get into ketosis, burn fat, and how she transformed her life as a general surgeon with green keto. This is a great interview. Check it out.

Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith, and today we welcome back the Girlfriend Doctor, Dr. Anna Cabeca. You may remember her from Episode 262. Dr. Anna is here to discuss here Keto-Green Way, which focuses on ketogenic eating paired with an alkaline diet and intermittent fasting. Her Keto-Green method naturally manages your body’s most important hormones and if followed properly will help address and correct the symptoms and side-effects that come along with imbalanced hormones. I can’t wait to get started, so let’s welcome Dr. Anna Cabeca and Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome, both of you.

Dr. Cabeca:
Thanks for having me.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, you’re back. You do something right when you get back on CellTV. No, this is a big topic. I mean, that’s why, right? I mean, one of the big myths is women struggle in keto. I’ve even heard women shouldn’t do keto. I’ve heard women shouldn’t fast, and yet, you’re saying it’s part of the answer for the hormone problem.

Dr. Cabeca:
Exactly, it’s essential.

Dr. Pompa:
We have to bring some more things. One of the things you do so well too is you really make things very simple. That’s what you’ve done, and your new book coming out does the same thing, so thank you for that. You and I talk about a lot of the same strategies for women, and we both say the same thing. These strategies are more important even for women than men. However, they work for men too to take it to a whole other level of effectiveness.

Anyways, let’s dig right in, right? Give us your story first in case people hadn’t watched the first one. How did you get into this?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, the trials and tribulations, for sure, right? I think just definitely a long road. I was 39 years old. Here I was trained, I would say, at one of the best institutions in the nation at Emory University in gynecology and obstetrics, a hormone expert, and yet, at 39, I was struggling with early menopause and infertility. I had failed the highest doses of infertility meds, and I was told the only way that I’d ever be able to have another child was a donation, which wasn’t an option for us at the time. Here I was helping so many others get pregnant, work on hormones, dialing it in, and my doctor’s bag was empty.

That was devastation amidst devastation for me, and it took me on a journey around the world learning from indigenous healers, from Native-American shaman, to Indian philosophers, to a Brazilian medicine man and an Indonesian healer, as well as some of the world’s most leading scientists and physicians. As a result, I reversed the diagnosis of early menopause and infertility. I conceived naturally a beautiful, healthy girl at age 41, and so now I’m 52 with a 12-year-old. It’s been a journey.

Dr. Pompa:
What about the keto? I mean, how is that part of that journey?

Dr. Cabeca:
That’s when definitely worked on the first part, the first leg, and certainly carb restriction, that component. That worked really well, especially, again, alkalinizing, focusing on alkalinizing, detoxifying, hormone balancing food. When I hit 48, I cycled—I was starting to cycle back down. Here I was at that point a single mom struggling, one daughter in the wee early years of elementary school, one in middle school, and another daughter in high school. Let me tell you, at 48, the brain fog was hitting, the memory loss. I was really stressed and a sole provider for my family and struggling with burnout from work, from my practice.

I experienced what so many of our patients come in and complain about. They come in and say, Dr. Anna, I’m gaining 5, 10, 20 pounds, and I’m not doing anything different. Dan, I know you’re more sympathetic than me. I was like, really, you’re not. Thinking in my head, really, how is that possible?

Dr. Pompa:
Just lazy, they’re not exercising enough, and they’re gluttons, right?

Dr. Cabeca:
Oh, I bet if I look in her purse there’s a Snickers bar, and I’m going to share it with her. No, it was like what’s the situation? Then it happened to me, 20 pounds overnight without doing anything different. At one point, I’d been well over 240 pounds, always had struggled with my weight and kept it off for nearly a decade, so without doing anything different gained that 20 pounds overnight. That’s where keto came in. I totally restricted carbs.

For anyone listening that lost a significant amount of weight and the scale starts creeping up and you’re like, oh, my God—for me, I was it won’t stop ‘til I’m 300 pounds because it doesn’t make sense. I’ve really restricted carbs, but I experienced what I call keto crazy. Not keto flu. That wasn’t part of it. It was keto crazy. I was more irritable, more on edge. I was reactive, so I reacted instead of responded.

I needed to understand what’s happening to my neurotransmitters this way? With my first book, The Hormone Fix, this is where I really say it takes more than hormones to fix our hormones. My reproductive hormones were dialed in, but there’s more to it. As I looked into what was happening to my body and with this keto approach, I recognized I was really acidic. Checking urine pH was an aha moment for me as I saw—we’re homeschooling. As I saw, I was so acidic on urine pH testing, and that was an aha moment. I recognized no wonder I feel out of sorts. No wonder I feel more irritated. No wonder, right?

Then I just started the low-carbohydrate alkalinizers, the cruciferous vegetables for hormone balance and detoxification, and with that, checking my urine pH every time I went to the bathroom. I recognized that the mornings I walked on the beach or I did my gratitude journaling, I was more alkaline all day. Hence, it’s not just about what we eat. It’s about maybe who we’re eating with, or when we’re eating and also what we ate. All those things go together.

Dr. Pompa:
I know you discuss this in your book. Tell us a little bit more about when does someone measure their pH? Look, I work with very toxic people. I could have them eat just veggies all day long, and they’re still acid because of toxins. How does that play in as well because diet and toxins play a role? First start with how you measure it. What do you look for?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, so very simple measuring urine pH. I always tell clients it’s not about blood pH. When we’re talking blood pH, we’re actually talking arterial blood gas pH, arterial blood pH. When we are measuring that, it is so finely controlled. Our body keeps it so finely controlled, but our urine pH will adjust. It’s like a thermometer for us, a good indicator, a biomarker to let us know how we’re interacting with our mind, our nutrition, our environment.

This is where I tell clients you do your Nancy Drew detective work, maybe a Hardy boy detective work. I don’t know. Nancy Drew detective work in that you really have to look at these clues. What is your body telling you? I say initially starting, especially if you’re acidic, check every time you use the bathroom. I mean urine pH paper or strips costs pennies, and so check each time you use the bathroom and identify. Certain times we want to be acidic, after a strong workout.

Dr. Pompa:
No, absolutely. I want to point that out to people. Typically, first thing in the morning you’re acidic because you dumped a lot of waste at night, right? Take people through that.

Dr. Cabeca:
Too, then when we can wake up alkaline because maybe we had restorative sleep overnight and then maybe we need additional minerals overnight if we continue to wake up acidic. Again, dehydration can be a reason too that our urine pH is low. That’s where I really have clients—I want them to wake up at least with a urine pH of 7. It’s totally possible. Go to sleep in that alkaline range, and let our body do the work. Things like eating enough nutrients, micronutrients, macronutrients, certainly, but especially micronutrients, methylators, the dark green leafies, the cruciferous vegetables, and fermented foods, digestive foods. All of that helps us absorb our nutrients better, and that helps with alkalinity.

The other things, toxins, hormone disrupters, if we’re not getting alkaline and we’re eating this perfect diet—I have so many vegans and vegetarians. Like you said, they sometimes have a really hard time getting alkaline often too because they’re high glycemic foods, high amount of carbs, and sugar will increase acidity, even if they’re amazing healthy foods. That’s where fasting really comes in. Being aware of that makes a difference, mold toxicity, food sensitivities. I can be alkaline, alkaline, alkaline and some dairy get into a piece of cheese or dairy get into my food, and lo and behold, I’m acidic right away.

Dr. Pompa:
What are some of the times of day that you want people to measure and what’s the—you mentioned 7. Is that your number? Give some of that instruction.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, so looking at 7 as neutral but that’s—anything 7 and above, I really like to see that, to focus on that, to wake up that way, go to sleep that way. Also recognizing that first thing when we wake up in the morning, if we’re stressed, dehydrated, cortisol spike, we didn’t get a good night sleep, we may be acidic, and that’s where we can figure it out. Then check midday to see how your—after you break fast, how does that affect you and later on in the day, in the evening, and to check before bed? Three to four times a day at least because you’re just trying to figure it out.

Dr. Pompa:
Typically, if you’re fasting—a lot of viewers intermittent fast. Are you going to typically be more acid or alkaline in the fast, and what happens after you start eating?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, typically, when we’re fasting, we turn to acidic. When we push our bodies into ketosis, we really have to fight to stay alkaline and in ketosis at the same time when we’re eating. When we’re fasting, we’re naturally going to be more acidic, so don’t worry about it. Stay hydrated. We’ve talked about dry fasting before, you and I a little bit together, and definitely are going to get acidic even with short dry fast.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, exactly. That’s what I wanted people to hear. All right, so then you start eating in your window. Then what can you expect later?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, I do want to say this with fasting too because I’ve been playing with this a long time. There’s the tendency to get acidic, but when you do the oxytocin increasing activities—again, oxytocin is the most alkalinizing hormone in our body.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, wow! That’s cool. I didn’t know that. I love the oxytocin increasing activities. Every time my puppy comes up to me I get an oxytocin boost.

Dr. Cabeca:
Exactly, so test during your next fast and waking up acidic and then just playing, and see what happens. See what happens, laughter, watching a good movie. I can list 100 to suggest, good funny movies, having great conversation, laughter, relaxation, and watch that shift in your urine pH too. I think that’s where also these meditative practices, these alkalinizing practices—I call them alkalinizing practices like meditation, a HeartMath, heart rate variability, increasing your heart rate variability, how these activities help increase your alkalinity. How cool is that, right?

Dr. Pompa:
Mm-hmm. I mean, I’ve had many doctors say, hey, being alkaline, stuck in alkalinities all the time and I know [Dr. Savory] talks about that as one of the signs of certain cancers too. How do we find this balance?

Dr. Cabeca:
I think it really comes with knowing—really knowing yourself, knowing what you’re doing and how you feel, and this is where discernment comes in. Just like anything, there’s the what gets measured gets managed. Mostly, it’s the opposite. If we have for whatever reason some physiologic defect that we are super alkalinized, which I’ve—that’s a rarity, right? That is the exception.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s like this weird end stage thing that can happen. It’s a very odd thing, I mean, so you see these oddities on either end.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, but mostly what we see and what we know from the research with more of an alkaline urine pH, urine pH of 7 or better, the higher the urine pH the decreased risk of diabetes, hypertension, cancer, osteoporosis, and any of the inflammatory symptoms. It’s a nice detective marker to figure—to help us figure out, okay, what am I doing right? What am I doing wrong?

I had a patient recently, 67-year-old woman, and she’s been working with me in my online programs, Magic Menopause, for a couple years now. At the onset of quarantine, she had an appointment with me. She goes, “Dr. Anna, I’ve been so stressed.” She goes, “I’ve been doing everything right. I’ve been alkaline for a year now and really monitoring that. Everything I’ve eaten, etc., it just hasn’t shift my urine pH. I’m still acidic,” she goes, “but I had—I’ve been isolated with my husband of 40 years. We don’t know who’s going to—what’s going to kill us, coronavirus or each other.”

Dr. Pompa:
Probably each other.

Dr. Cabeca:
Exactly, so she said, “I’m missing my daughter and my grandson. I haven’t been able to see them.” That was an added stress. She said, “Well, he turned 2 the other day, and my daughter set up a Skype call with my grandson to celebrate his birthday, and I could see him eat his cake and open the present I sent him. I just laughed for an hour,” she said. She goes, “Dr. Anna, I couldn’t wait. The next time I used the bathroom I had to check my urine pH, and I was a beautiful alkaline at that point,” power of oxytocin.

Dr. Pompa:
Oxytocin, yeah, that’s cool. Really, I don’t think I’ve heard that before. It makes total sense. All right, in our book, you talk about the critical window of opportunity theory. What is it, and what does it mean?

Dr. Cabeca:
I definitely believe in this time—and this is why getting keto fasting, getting Keto-Green, keto alkaline is critical for women in this perimenopause and beyond stage. We enter this period of neuroendocrine vulnerability. This is, again, through my experience where I learned in how to find the research, and there is. Looking at why was I experiencing the brain fog? I talk about the 13 hormones of weight gain, certainly, but the brain fog, the memory loss. That’s pretty scary when you rely on your memory for everything, right? I was certainly troubled by that.

What happens is, during this period of neuroendocrine vulnerability and it looks like between the ages of 35 to 55, it’s this perimenopausal window that there is a steep decline in the brain’s ability to use glucose for fuel. This was such an aha moment for me. Why when I went Keto-Green, keto alkaline I had this clarity? The brain fog lifted. My memory improved dramatically, and I just felt this—I call it energized enlightenment. Getting into ketosis and getting alkaline at the same time, that’s my energized enlightenment formula.

Here, in that window, our brain’s actually starving for fuel because gluconeogenesis in the brain is an estrogen dependent phenomenon. Now, what happens? My patients come into the gynecologist, come in to see me because of anxiety, PMS, irritability, difficulty sleeping, irregular menstrual cycles, breakthrough bleeding, heavier than normal period. The standard medical approach is here is the birth control pill. Here is the SSRI, Prozac, Celexa, Zoloft, and if that’s not working, here’s the hysterectomy. The patient comes back and says I’m still having issues. Here’s the referral to the psychiatrist and divorce attorney.

It’s sad, but when we can shift—and this is what I recognized in my practice. I mean, I’m a surgeon by training. When I understood what happened to me and healing these physiologic changes, I went from doing two to three—empowering, my mistake. Not me healing. Empowering my patient to heal her physiology, I went from doing—needing to do two to three surgeries per week to two to three major surgeries per year. That’s how powerful our body can regenerate. The uterus is a victim of hormonal imbalance and inflammation.

This neuroendocrine time, they’re talking about also estrogen, estrogen dependent. The decline, when we look at the graph of glucose utilization in the brain, it really follows the progesterone decline. Of course, progesterone is the precursor to cortisol, to our sex steroids, and progesterone is neuroprotective. We know it is, so this is why it adds this vulnerable time period. We lose this protective layer of progesterone, and we can have emotional swings. Not everyone but it is significant. These neuroendocrine symptoms are significant, especially for those of us who have had PTSD and/or adverse childhood experiences.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, well said. All right, let’s back up a second. Keto-Green, it’s back there. There’s the book. We’ll put the link, of course. What does it actually mean? You and I both used it now, and we wrote it. What does it actually mean, and what are then tenets of Keto-Green? Obviously, you give those in the book.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yes, definitely. The concept for me of keto is getting into ketosis so that we’re using fat for fuel and, ideally, our fat and certainly healthy fats from our diet. Through intermittent fasting, really, that’s where we really shine in this area to enable—for women, that’s essential to really optimize getting into ketosis. The green part really was Keto-Alkaline, now termed Keto-Green. That alkalinity component, that green component is certainly the dark green leafies, the alkalinizing vegetables, detoxifiers for our hormones, and that support for our gut microbiome. Everything is significantly formulated for a reason, combined for a reason, but also to check not just what we eat.

Dan, you know this. The scientific studies show that 93% of diets fail, and we know they fail because it’s not just about what we eat. More of the green, the Keto-Green aspects are those lifestyle things. It’s the lifestyle things so the intermittent fasting, no more snacking, exercising that insulin sensitivity.

Dr. Pompa:
All of that, to your point now, we’re bringing it full circle, helps the alkalinity naturally, helps your body find the balance naturally, the oxytocin, I mean, all those things. The green part is, hey, it’s not just high fat. It’s not just low carb. Here’s the specific greens to focus on, and it helps you more of what that alkalinity balance, which helps the hormones, that in general. Some people may read it and think, oh, it’s just—it is a vegetarian keto or a vegan keto, but not necessarily.

Dr. Cabeca:
Exactly, it’s an omnivore—a 16-day omnivore keto plan. There’s also a 16-day Keto-Green vegan, vegetarian plan that’s…

Dr. Pompa:
I always have to explain that to people. It’s like keto can be vegetarian. It can be vegan, if you wanted it to be. People think it’s a high protein meat thing. It’s not Paleo. It’s not Atkins. There’s a little bit of difference here.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yes, yeah, and again, there’s the green component. Not just about what we eat, but it’s also those lifestyle factors.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I think it’s huge, yeah. Your book differentiates from other keto books in that you’re talking about these other lifestyle factors that are really transforming. All right, so you mentioned intermittent fasting. That’s a lifestyle thing. You and I, we all do this. I’ve have done it for years. What is your eating window that you like? Do you like to change it per person with some of your theory here and suggestions?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, so it is I think that whole concept of metabolic flexibility. Play with what works best for you. It may work best right now but may not—we have to change things up.

Dr. Pompa:
I love it. Yeah, you and I are on the same page with that, yeah.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, we have to have that flexibility. For Keto-Green 16, it’s a 16-hour fasting, hence16, 16 days, 16-hour fasting, 16 key food types. We really play on that great number 16, sweet 16, and so 16 hour. The eating window, I never liked the term eating window. We don’t want to eat all during that window. We want to break fast. We want to take at least three to four to five hours in between and then eat again, especially for women. We want to continue to increase that insulin sensitivity. Women have been told for so long, especially, three meals, three snacks. While that might be great for an Olympic athlete, especially a male Olympic athlete, it is not good for the menopausal female. We get more insulin resistant as a result, so breaking that habit of needing snacking and needing to snack is, honestly, liberating.

Dr. Pompa:
People don’t realize. You ask them how many times they eat a day, and it’s, oh, three, two. They’re just constantly eating, feeding the beast, so to speak. They don’t have the ability to burn their own fat as energy.

Dr. Cabeca:
It takes us out of willpower. It takes away willpower. Willpower is physiologic. One thing I did and you’ll love this—I don’t know if my—I’ve been wearing the 24-hour—can’t see it here but the 24-hour continuous glucose monitor.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, yeah, I’ve done some of that myself, yeah.

Dr. Cabeca:
I love that. It just helped me. I did it for all the recipes in the book and helped me so much in calculating what’s happening with blood sugar over time and looking for that flexibility and…

Dr. Pompa:
By the way, you can see how stress affects cortisol and adrenaline up, glucose up. You can see that it’s not just food that moves that number, right? Then that affects everything.

Dr. Cabeca:
It’s so true, public speaking, blood sugar goes sky high. You know what? One of the things I was interested in—I want to get your feedback on this too. When I started wearing the continuous glucose monitor, one thing I found was that when I would drink coffee in the morning my blood sugar would go up 20, 30 points. I could understand then why I could be fasting all night, 16, whatever, however many hours been in ketosis, and then bumped out of ketosis just by black coffee. It’s a big caution for women or those that are—that have this reaction. Coffee could be a culprit in keeping us…

Dr. Pompa:
In my book, I talk about how to test for that. The question I got most often is does my coffee work in my fasting window? My answer was I don’t know. Test it. It is different for everybody. If you test your glucose right before your coffee and 30 minutes after and rises more than 5 on average, you’ve got to change something. Nix the coffee. Go to tea. Trade something, or get rid of the fat in your coffee. Go black. If your black and it rises, go fat.

The point is is it’s not working. When glucose rises, you’re not getting that—you’re getting knocked out of autophagy. You’re losing that benefit, right? To your point, it may not be good. For you, you either needed to change something, or coffee’s not good at all. Maybe it was the caffeine. Maybe it was something else.

Dr. Cabeca:
Hence, the little cup of espresso at the end of a meal.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Cabeca:
A little tweaking can make a huge difference.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s right.

Dr. Cabeca:
Again, is it a food sensitivity? Is it something that could be causing your body—kicking you out of autophagy and how that can make a difference? It’s also fun to experiment getting up, doing a meditative practice, and then having coffee. Still have a spike, but not as high of a spike.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, interesting.

Dr. Cabeca:
Very interesting.

Dr. Pompa:
I know in your book you talk about prayer, which I’m a big fan. What have you found? Okay, you pray before a meal. Does it really make a difference?

Dr. Cabeca:
Absolutely, science has shown that saying grace before a meal increases your absorption of nutrients, increases your digestive ability. Your digestive enzymes are healthier. First is when we’re stressed—that’s why I say it’s not often just about what we eat, but maybe who you’re eating with could be stressing you out.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, okay. You know what? I can see two of my kids right now that I’m not going to eat with. They’re going to have to eat downstairs now.

Dr. Cabeca:
You just say an extra grace.

Dr. Pompa:
They’re the bickerers, right? They just er-er-er. I think they just like to bicker because it feeds their brain, and it does the opposite for me. Stop the bickering, anyways, yeah. All right, what about hair loss? One of the big questions I get is I got into keto. I started getting hair loss. I started intermittent fasting. I started getting hair loss, talk about that.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, this is something that I had dealt with personally early on post-traumatically, significant amount of hair loss. I had hair loss all the way to here and always had long hair. Then it was just like, oh, tremendous hair loss. Sometimes when I lecture I share those pictures very humbly. Recognizing that often clients would come in fearful. Here’s the hair that was in the drain. Bring it in to me. Look at all this hair loss. I know this is an issue. It’s devastating for many of us when we start to experience this, and it doesn’t have to be this way.

Often, we do the thyroid workup. We’re like, okay, well, your thyroid, not just normal, it’s optimal. That’s how it was for me too. Stress-induced hair loss is a really biggie, and I think that’s one of the components with getting into ketosis. If we’re not doing it right, if we’re not balancing cortisol, we can increase cortisol. Cortisol increases testosterone to dihydrotestosterone conversion via 5 alpha-reductase enzyme, and so we can block that conversion.

First, let’s manage cortisol. Let’s get that oxytocin up and going, but we can also block that enzyme conversion by zinc, for instance. Fifty, 60 mgs of zinc a day can be that thyroid dialed in, but again, cortisol too long is going to affect your thyroid too. Just to understand what’s causing that hair loss. The other thing is, again, not having enough micronutrients onboard. My clients who are checking their alkaline urine pH and they are getting alkaline will have an improvement not just in a decrease in the hair loss but improvement in hair quality and luster and volume.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, great, that’s awesome, well said. Yeah, so obviously, stress in general plays a role. It’s like oxytocin, stress, complete opposites. You’re right. As you do your little—the oxytocin things that you’re recommending, obviously, you help reduce stress. Give us some other clues you talk about how to reduce stress.

My fear is always that people are watching this going, yeah, my stress. You know what I mean? I mean, it’s like what can I do about it, my husband, my wife, my job? What are some of the tips for that? I mean, how do we reduce stress? Obviously, it’s a big, huge player here.

Dr. Cabeca:
The best advice I ever received—best piece of advice I’ve ever received was that you are the only that can upset yourself. You’re the only one who can upset yourself. You choose how to react. As a discipline and a practice, it’s choosing how to react and, actually, even better, how to respond instead of react. With that, I learned many skills. I had PTSD, significant PTSD after the loss of my son in a tragic accident. There was those flashbacks, the trauma, and the grieving and that, so learning to manage the thoughts because it’s thoughts at this time is compartmentalization. That was a really big thing for me.

Remembering the advice that I’m the only one who can upset myself, that was good. Then how do I gain that physiology of that peace and calm? Compartmentalization was a skill that I learned. By that I mean when these thoughts would come up and want to suck me in all throughout the day, I started to recognize and say, okay, from 8 to 8:15, that’s my time to deal with this, to get a journal, to write, to just think, to whatever, take a bath, do whatever I need to and address these thoughts. As they would come up all throughout the day, I compartmentalized them. I said I’ll get to you at 8 o’clock. That was liberating in so many ways, so compartmentalization, honoring those thoughts is very beneficial.

The second part is a practice of appreciation. It’s more than gratitude. It’s appreciation and getting into a place of just being able to appreciate what we know to be true for us right now. There’s always something, someone we can appreciate, a kindness, especially a kindness that’s been shown to us. That affects our physiology, and that appreciation, yeah, it decreases cortisol, increases oxytocin. We start to shift our physiology little by little. On a spiritual level, for me, the small little—[St. Ignation], the philosophical teachings about the discernment, are these thoughts based on fear or based on love? It’s, again, starting to be an observer and in control of my thoughts versus passively victimized by my thoughts. This was a shift. Is this a fear-based thought or a love-based thought?

I dealt with it again, Dan, when the quarantine came or the coronavirus crisis. One of my daughters, Amira, she was studying in Holland, in the Netherlands, for her third year of college. I was thinking, oh, my gosh, how am I going to get her? They’re closing the airports. What’s happening? I’ve lost a child. Am I going to lose another one? All of a sudden, it was like I’m spiraling.

Dr. Pompa:
In the moment.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, and that was, okay, what do I know to be true right now? Are these fear-based thoughts or love-based thoughts? That shifted everything.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah. Wow! That’s great and, again, an authority on the subject. Like you said, it’s like you’ve been there. That’s a great strategy. You know what I love about that strategy is it’s so absolutely real and usable. People answer the question often times, and it’s like, yeah, great. Then no one can actually do that.

That’s so easy to implement, and it’s so effective, right? We can only upset ourselves. Categorizing that and asking that simple question where’s it coming from, it’s like, man, I mean, if we just made that a habit every time. I mean, how much better would be? We’d take years off our life.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yes, absolutely. For me, it absolutely has.

Dr. Pompa:
Put years back on our life. I’m dyslexic, by the way. I flip everything. My brain just automatically flips it. It’s my odd view of the world.

Dr. Cabeca:
I’m agreeing.

Dr. Pompa:
No, your brain probably heard it correctly.

Dr. Cabeca:
Exactly, I flipped it right back.

Dr. Pompa:
Exactly true. One of the things that people struggle with is getting the grains in, right? Admittedly, I prefer fats, I do, than vegetables, so smoothies are a way for me. My wife on the other hand, exact opposite. You can watch what we eat on the plate, right? I’ll go right for the fatty meat. She goes right for the green vegetable. My green vegetables, last thing off my plate, I just eat it so absolute opposites.

She cracks up at me because I love to put my greens in a blender. This is what I do. I just prefer it. You have the Keto-Green smoothie. If you started this being your first meal—I won’t want to say start your day with it necessarily but your first meal.

Dr. Cabeca:
Break fast.

Dr. Pompa:
Talk about it, I know the whole ingredients are in your book.

Dr. Cabeca:
Oh, yeah, and I love that concept of the sneaky chef. You’re having to sneak greens into you some way or another, and I think about that for kids. I was interviewed on a TV show earlier today for the news station locally. They said, “Well, how do you get your kids to greens and stuff? What if they don’t?” You blend them into the spaghetti sauce. You make awesome smoothies. My daughter didn’t know that she was—she thought she was getting strawberry smoothies. A thin slice of beet into her green smoothies made it look like a strawberry smoothie for the longest time. Actually, I was making a smoothie for the show that I was on to just even—just sharing what greens you have, just like a…

Dr. Pompa:
What’s in the bowl?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, so I’ve got good stuff. I’ve got some spinach and arugula but whatever greens you have in the fridge.

Dr. Pompa:
That amount is something you’d add to the smoothie?

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, that’s perfect. That’s perfect. It was ice, and there’s a slice of ginger in here. Ginger is such a good digestive food in that it’s important for digestion. We just flip those in there. Do this with getting it all over the place so amazing ginger. You use half an avocado or a quarter to a half avocado, healthy fats, or MCT oil, or full fat coconut.

Dr. Pompa:
You’re getting some good quality fats.

Dr. Cabeca:
Fat, fiber.

Dr. Pompa:
That amount of ginger.

Dr. Cabeca:
Then good quality protein so you could use nuts, or seeds, or Keto-Green protein powder. Add extra greens if you want. That’s just an easy—that’s perfect. You want fat, fiber, and protein. Fat, fiber, and protein, it’s so important, especially for women, that fiber with the fat so that we—our blood sugar stays stable, so they’re not getting that peak and valley that’s going to create cravings and hunger and a decrease in willpower.

Dr. Pompa:
I love that for my first meal. It’s quick. I’m busy in the day. That’s why it’s easy. It’s easier for me not to eat all day than to eat. Often times, when I’m purposely eating, boom, I’m in and out with it, so I love that. It makes it so much easier. Then dinnertime I can sit down with the family and have a little bit larger, slower meal.

Dr. Cabeca:
How often are you fasting now? What have you eased into?

Dr. Pompa:
I mean, it depends on what kind of fasting, right? I do four longer fasts, five-day fasts a year, but I would say two are partial fast, two are pure water. That’s an average. Probably, a week, I probably get two or three days where I just eat one meal. It’s never planned. I have busy days, and it’s just easier for me, honestly, just not to eat. It just happens. I also pick at least one, maybe two days where I feast. I purposely eat more.

Honestly, the feast days for me are more important, obviously keeping it healthy. I mix it up like that, and it’s magic for me. Again, Saturday is typically that day. I’ll get up. I’ll eat earlier, and then I’ll have another meal, or I’ll just do two meals of more carbohydrates, maybe even—I even do high-protein days. I mix it up a lot like that.

Dr. Cabeca:
I think that’s exactly—I mean, it’s so necessary. That metabolic flexibility, it’s absolutely so necessary.

Dr. Pompa:
You have to keep the body guessing. I mean, the big mistake, I know you see it to is people, oh, low carb works, and then they get low carb, low carb. Then the body thinks it’s starving, wants to hold on to fat. You can really screw the metabolic flexibility up. You have to fool the body, and you talk about that.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yeah, and that’s where I think too, for clients, it’s so important to—we say what gets measured gets managed so looking at markers of health. That goes beyond your waist size, dress size. It really is looking at your hemoglobin A1c, your inflammatory markers, and other key markers that when we’re able to just see improvements in that really helps us long-term stay the course too.

Dr. Pompa:
What are your favorite blood markers being a physician. You mentioned the A1c, which is looking at glucose over a few months as opposed to the spot shot. By the way, that’s a big predictor of inflammation. What are some of your other ones?

Dr. Cabeca:
Definitely hemoglobin A1c and we see that huge shift really quickly with this approach. The second is hsCRP, highly-sensitive or cardio C-reactive protein so that too. We can see those shifts early on and monitor. We can monitor pretty quickly an improvement, and so that’s another one as a more sensitive marker of inflammation and then DHEA-S so a marker of our adrenal, DHEA-sulfate in the blood. Why I like to look at that, because it also lets me know adrenal reserve and resilience. The higher, healthier DHEA we have that we are naturally producing the more resilient we are. I find that to be true. I’d really like to see some more adrenal studies.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s great advice, yeah.

Dr. Cabeca:
Then the fourth one that I love is Vitamin D, 25-hydroxy. It has broken my heart so many times to treat a cancer patient who’s been through chemo, radiation. I look at these markers, and their Vitamin D level’s 8, 9, 10. It makes me want to cry.

Dr. Pompa:
It’s so unnecessary. That’s why it makes you want to cry, right? It’s such a big deal. It’s a prohormone. It’s immune system. It’s everything.

Dr. Cabeca:
Even just those four markers, I think that we can just follow those four markers and watch those improvements, and we can see it quickly. In hemoglobin A1c, it’s a myth that we have to wait two months. I mean, we’ve seen improvements in one month with a hemoglobin A1c, like from 6 to 5.4. I mean, just tremendous improvements when we make these shifts. That for so many, especially for me—I mean, my hemoglobin A1c at one time over a decade ago was 5.7. It’s 4.8 now. I’m 53 with a 12—actually, we have 7 females in this house right now, and that’s pretty good.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s pretty good, yeah. That’s pretty good. By the way, everyone listening, ask your doctor for those. Those are very typical tests. I mean, sometimes they just run the regular CRP, but the highly sensitive one you’d have to ask them for. DHEA wouldn’t typically be run. It’s not hard to run. Insurance typically would pay for that. The HbA1c, that’s easy. Good doctors run that.

Wait, which one did I miss? Oh, Vitamin D, that’s easy.

Dr. Cabeca:
Vitamin D, 25-hydroxy.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, Vitamin D. There’s the four. Ask your doctor to run them. I love that. I love those too, by the way. A lot of blood markers, they’re too transient, up and down, but those ones, those are—that’s great, great advice, just general looking at health.

It’s a funny thing. When I’m into ketosis, my particle numbers of cholesterol actually rise, which particle numbers—I don’t care about total cholesterol. My father always had very high total cholesterols, and he didn’t die of a heart attack. My particle numbers will rise, which do matter, but all of those numbers that you mentioned get better. It’s this odd thing. Evidently, I’m 20% of the population that the particle numbers rise in ketosis. Here’s the point, though, all my inflammatory markers drop, all my glucose numbers drop.

Dr. Cabeca:
Are you Type A as far as the particle size?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I look at size too, and ironically enough, my small can rise too. It’s like I spent hours because I’m an anomaly. What normally happens in ketosis is those go down, the size get better, all that. I’m the opposite. I found out that there is this group of people who that happens to, but again, my A1c drops. All my inflammatories, my CRP drops. Even my triglycerides drop, ironically. There’s this anomaly with cholesterol. Go figure. My father had the anomaly of having very—I mean, he ran 360, 400 cholesterol levels, and the doctors wanted to—he never did anything about it. Yeah, his heart was never an issue.

Dr. Cabeca:
Again, that’s where inflammation—if you don’t have inflammation, that’s the big—that’s the sticky factor, those calcifications and why it’s so—why it is so important to look at these markers and just see how our lifestyle and nutritional choices really are affecting us. Beyond any prescription plan, what affect is it having on me?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, that’s awesome. Dr. Anna, I thank you so much for being on the show again. I love it. I love your approach. Obviously, our approach is…

Dr. Cabeca:
Likewise.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, we reflect one another. I think, hey, I’m going to be on your show evidently coming up. Yeah, appreciate that.

Dr. Cabeca:
Yes, thank you. You get to be on The Girlfriend Doctor podcast.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I love it. I love the topics. Hey, get her book, folks, just an incredible resource of knowledge, especially around this approach. Not just another keto book. I will say that. Thank you again for being on Cellular Healing TV.

Dr. Cabeca:
Thank you.

Ashley:
That’s it for this week. I hope you enjoyed today’s episode, which was brought to you by Fastonic Molecular Hydrogen. Please check it out at getfastonic.com. We’ll be back next week and every Friday at 10 a.m. Eastern. We truly appreciate your support. You can always find us at cellularhealing.tv, and please remember to spread the love by liking, subscribing, giving an iTunes review, or sharing the show with anyone who may benefit from the information heard here. As always, thanks for listening.

Today I welcome the internationally known and respected Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt. Dr. Klinghardt has earned his amazing reputation for his successful treatment of chronic pain and illness, and has contributed significantly to the understanding of metal toxicity and its connection with chronic infections such as Lyme. He is considered an authority on this subject and has been instrumental in advancing various fields within biological medicine. I am such huge fans of his work, and I'm excited for this opportunity to have him join me on CHTV today.

More about Dr. Klinghardt:

Dr. Klinghardt, is Founder of the Sophia Health Institute.

Internationally known for his successful treatment of chronic pain and illness, Dr. Klinghardt combines non-surgical orthopedic medicine with immunology, endocrinology, toxicology, neural therapy, hypnotherapy and energy psychology.

Since the 1970s, Dr. Klinghardt has contributed significantly to the understanding of metal toxicity and its connection with chronic infections, illness and pain. He is considered an authority on this subject and has been instrumental in advancing various fields within biological medicine – non-invasive pain management, injection techniques for pain and orthopedic dysfunction, anti-aging medicine, toxicology, pediatrics (neuro-developmental disorders), energy psychology, biological dentistry, and others. He has also developed Autonomic Response Testing, a comprehensive diagnostic system that has helped many practitioners to become accomplished holistic physicians.

Show notes:

• Dr. Klinghardt's Sophia Health Institute
• Order Dr. Pompa's Beyond Fasting book – now released!
• Fastonic Cellular Molecular Hydrogen – support all forms of fasting with molecular H2!

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Transcript:

Dr. Pompa:
Most of you have heard of Dr. Klinghardt. He is a scientist of our age really digging in for answers in today’s epidemics, and I have to say he’s always on the cutting edge. Many people have said you and Dr. Klinghardt have to get together more and more, so our teams brought us together in this interview. You’re going to hear some of the most exciting things of our time that you are going to get the benefit from, and you’re also going to hear some surprising things that we will resonate on. What about all this genetic testing and SNP testing? What about all the microbiome testing? You’re going to have to watch this episode to hear our responses. What is the greatest threat of our day and age, and what can you do about it? You’re going to have to hear from one of the greatest scientists today doing some of this research on this episode of CellTV. Stay tuned.

Ashley:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to Cellular Healing TV. I’m Ashley Smith, and today we welcome Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt, who is founder of the Sophia Health Institute. Dr. Klinghardt is internationally known for successful treatment of chronic pain and illness and has contributed significantly to the understanding of metal toxicity and its connection with chronic infections such as Lyme. He is considered an authority on the subject and has been instrumental in advancing various fields within biological medicine. We are such huge fans of his work and are excited for this opportunity to have him on CellTV, so let’s get started and welcome Dr. Klinghardt and, of course, Dr. Pompa to the show. Welcome, both of you.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, nice meeting you guys.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, Dr. K., that’s what your staff calls you. I like that. I thought it was very affectionate. Anyway, it’s such a pleasure to be here today. You and I have—we’re out there lecturing in this world on detox. Gosh, so many times people come up to me and say, gosh, you and Dr. Klinghardt really need to talk. You guys really resonate on a lot of these topics and same subjects.

Today, I want to focus on Lyme. I said I haven’t done a show on this in a while, but you and I have a lot of the same feelings around Lyme, and I want to bring out our strategies. I want to bring out your strategies. I can share mine anytime. I want to bring your strategies to my viewers and listeners and your thoughts about Lyme, so thank you for being here. Let’s crush it.

Actually, I had to stop you right before the interview. I’m like, no, that’s great. You started talking about Lyme and this history about where Lyme started in Connecticut but how’s it’s different in some of the other strains today. I’ll let you share that, but let’s open this conversation wide open right now. Go at it. Finish your thought.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, so what brought Lyme into the public consciousness was a strain of Lyme that caused severe illness starting in the 70s and moving forward from there, and it really did start in Lyme, Connecticut. It’s just almost a miracle that we had some very, very smart, intelligent physicians there who realized it was different from what they’ve seen before, and that they called the right people on the plane to actually diagnose that whatever people were made sick by was in fact an infection. However, Klinghardt comes to America in 1982. I had a full working knowledge of Borrelia infections and the impact on neurological illnesses. That it was very well known in Germany that many psychiatric and neurological illnesses were caused by chronic infections. In fact, it was very well known in the Third Reich and used by the destructive forces of Hitler. He had already the first biological warfare lab where bugs were groomed for making large populations sick, and then they were sprayed via airplanes on large populations in the Ukraine and Russia and other places in order to bring the population down. Just simply to weaken them, to make them tired, to make them fatigued.

We know from some of the early books written—Lab 257 was one of them, but also, now the more shocking insider report from Kris Newby, the book Bitten, reveals that the bug that escaped or was seeded on Plum Island that actually went across the little small piece of ocean to the next town, which was Lyme, Connecticut, that those affected with that bug got very, very seriously ill. The genome that has been cracked, the listeners should know that regular bacteria, very evolved bacteria may have 15 or even 20 genes. That would be a lot of bacteria. Now, the most intelligent bug until fairly recently was syphilis that had somewhere around 30 genes. Come along the first full genome that I helped [00:05:45] in Germany on an American patient that we extracted a Lyme disease, his Lyme’s bug—his had over 800 genes. That’s just simply something that doesn’t grow in nature. There were sections of Epstein-barr embedded into the Lyme gene and sections of microplasma. That brings up the issue—when we diagnose people here, we do a test for microplasma and for the herpes viruses, and people are positive on all of these. The question is is it actually separate bugs, or is it just one lone bugs where different parts of the genome of other virulent bugs have been integrated?

What we’re dealing with really is two illnesses. We have the manmade lab created version of Lyme spirochetes, which is very aggressive. It’s a very devastating illness that’s very hard to treat. Then there is the background of natural occurring Borrelia infections, which probably has always been there. We know that Ötzi, the Iceman, the man that was found in the Alps, in the Austrian Alps, he was 5,300 years in ice, embedded, entombed, and he was full of Lyme spirochetes but the variety that had only 27 genes. It was an early culprit that was more intelligent than any other bug of that time but not 800 genes. It’s a big difference.

Dr. Pompa:
Right, meaning the manmade one, obviously, being 800.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Among the Lyme literate physicians, this is not generally known. People think, okay, well, I have some hard cases of Lyme, and I have some easy cases of Lyme. What I’m proposing here is that the difference actually is that they’re not the same illness. In terms of diagnosing Lyme, we’ve gone around the block with that. Blood was for a long time the world standard here in the US. Now we prefer the test from Army labs. They use the lymphocyte transformation test, which is a more sensitive test with a high detection rate, and then some newer PCR-based tests that we’ve explored. We’re very, very successful having had a very, very sensitive test. Then the lab was visited by the FDA and told the lab that they’re over diagnosing Lyme’s disease, that they have to change their detection rate on the bar above which they’re reporting.

The lab testing is still in its infancy, I would say. The definitive diagnosis of Lyme really can be made with a biopsy. The leading pathologist with that was Alan MacDonald. He’s still alive. He’s still lecturing. He was brilliant. He did biopsies of people that died of Alzheimer’s disease and found the brain full of Lyme, living Lyme spirochetes. He did the same with autistic kids with their brains. He did the same with virtually any neurological illness, and found not in just a small fraction of them but, in all of them, he found living Lyme spirochetes inside the myelin sheath of the nerves happily living in there.

We’re operating here in this office under the assumption that everyone with psychological or psychiatric problems and everyone with any type of neurological problem should be suspected of having Lyme at the core of the illness, and that has served us very, very well. Based on that, we have developed our own approaches to treat the illness. You probably know.

Dr. Pompa:
Let’s talk about that. One of the things that I had said that I had found clinically in my group of doctors that I train and work with closely is that it’s very difficult to get the Lyme out. It’s intelligent, this bacteria, and it will find itself hiding from the immune system in and around heavy metals, and when we deal with the heavy metals, we can definitely go to a whole other level. What is your experience been with that?

Dr. Klinghardt:
Of course, it goes back a long way. One of the cofactors of Lyme always was mercury, and it turns out that we observed a number of cases where we had a patient’s amalgam fillings removed because we tested. People crashed really badly, and it turns out that a steady release of mercury from the dental amalgam fillings is actually a moderately successful treatment for Lyme disease. Lyme suffers from the mercury just as our own cells do, and so that was a big discovery. However, taking out, detoxing mercury still is helpful because the immune system is damaged by it and incapacitated by it. To get the immune system back onboard you need to—I need to sneeze.

Dr. Pompa:
Dr. K. has the coronavirus. No, I’m joking. We were discussing that before this. If you watch this or listen to this, that will date this video.

Dr. Klinghardt:
No, I’m going to have a Corona beer tonight, and I’ll be fine again.

Dr. Pompa:
I love it.

Dr. Klinghardt:
The connection with the Lyme and heavy metals or metal, toxic metals in general, is very complex. We know that Lyme only becomes treatable when we take the mercury away, so that’s an important part. The other one that’s also published is that one of the most important growth factors for Lyme spirochetes is aluminum. One of the big things that we do in the office here, we focus early on on detoxifying aluminum from the brain and from the nervous system, and it has been a very rewarding…

Dr. Pompa:
Mercury and aluminum in the brain have this synergy that’s very nasty. You have to deal with both of those, especially in the brain, and I find that’s what a lot of practitioners fail to do is really deal with it. Oh, yeah, I did a mercury or a heavy metal detox, but you and I both know it takes time to get it out of the deep tissue, especially the brain. Therein lies the magic.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, that’s really the secret to the treating Lyme disease. I mean, the orthopedic form of Lyme disease is easy to treat. You just use antibiotics and some ozone injections in the joints, and you’re done. If it’s deep in the limbic system, you have to have a whole different approach to it. It’s always going to be a combination of detoxifying and then treating the infections and modulating the immune system. It’s those three [00:13:37].

Dr. Pompa:
I couldn’t agree more, and we’ll talk about some of your strategies here in a moment. Now, part of the strategy—and I want to get to this. The heavy metals and Lyme, there’s a connection. Now a new problem, EMF, you’ve been very outspoken about the EMF connection with Lyme. If this isn’t what you said, then correct me, but you find it almost impossible, if not impossible, to get rid of Lyme unless you deal with these EMF exposures. Am I right on hearing you correctly?

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, of course, this gets into some complex findings. First of all, the manmade electromagnetic radiation is affecting the microbes in our environment far more clearly than it does out body cells. Our cells are pretty evolved and pretty stable. They do get affected. There’s no question. What gets mostly infected inside of us is our own microbiome. All the living things in us are suffering.

We know that Lyme and other bugs, also the molds, they’re intelligent, and so when they feel threatened, they have embedded in their DNA certain sections that they can activate to basically turn into a poisonous beast that punishes the host if the host is nice to them. It’s pretty straightforward. Everything in life wants to live together, communicate, copulate with each other and be in harmony with each other. We have many patients that we found when we did the PCR testing that had a high body burden of living Lyme spirochetes, but they were absolutely very dynamic, healthy people with a healthy outlook on life and [00:15:38]. It is not the microbes in us. It is the difference having happy microbes in us or upset microbes.

The first step in turning the microbiome that we have—the entirety of all the bugs that live in us and with us, to turn them into happy bugs the first step has to be do we boost the exposure to manmade electromagnetic fields? There is absolutely no question with that. It has been the single most rewarding thing that we do in the office that sets us aside from many other offices that we don’t just jam the antibiotics down the throat of the patient. We first of all look at the environment and how that is a driving force of the illness. That’s Step 1 is get rid of the electric environment to the largest degree possible.

Step 2 is the air that the patient breathes day and night. The home air is issue—it’s an important issue, and if it’s mold and mycotoxins, it needs to be handled. For that, we found a very inexpensive solution. It’s a propolis vaporizer that at a certain temperature creates a molecular mist of propolis and leaves a very subtle, gentle aroma in the air. These are particles that carry the highest negative charge, and they bind to any dust particle but also to any mycotoxins. All the mycotoxins…

Dr. Pompa:
This is new to me, so therefore, how do my viewers and listeners—give us a little detail here, and I can have Ashley put up a link in. They can order that from your site.

Dr. Klinghardt:
That’s an Italian invention. It’s invented by an old beekeeper and then passed on through several generations in Italy.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, propolis is from the bees, right? That’s part of the honey that is the antibacterial part.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, well, it’s the part that the bees are using to winterize the hive, to basically use it as this concrete that fill the gaps in the beehive. It’s antibacterial and very, very strong antiviral.

Dr. Pompa:
Antifungal as well, as I recall.

Dr. Klinghardt:
In fact, for the coronavirus, it’s probably the most effective tool is the propolis. This is not about this, but to clean up the home environment, people need to have—at least here in the Northwest need to have the propolis vaporizer, and at least in the rainy months, it should be running 24/7.

Dr. Pompa:
When you say a propolis vaporizer, is it a regular vaporizer that you put propolis—a liquid propolis into?

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, there is small cartridges premade. It’s organic, biodynamically grown educated bees. It’s a fantastic high-quality propolis, and it’s a special instrument. Ki Science has it. It’s a propolis vaporizer.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, Ki Science, we’ll put the link here. Ashely will find the link, folks.

Dr. Klinghardt:
K-I Science.

Dr. Pompa:
Okay, K-I Science, and then they sell the propolis cartridges is what you’re saying?

Dr. Klinghardt:
There are cartridges that go in. They have to be replaced every ten days. It’s about $2 for 10 days, so it’s very affordable, and it’s a fantastic treatment. My lab treatment starts with that, cleaning up the home for mold and cleaning up the electric environment. Then the next step is what do you give the patient?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, okay, let’s talk about that. I think that’s a unique approach already, and I agree with it. If these other stressors are affecting the person, good luck. You’re not going to make an impact here. Okay, so then let’s talk about what you’re giving the patients. One of the things that I can say I’ve learned is these critters are smart. You have to rotate things. You can’t just put someone on this protocol. Keep them on the protocol. We have learned that changing things, fooling it, backing it—it’ll back into a cyst form. Come back out.

Talk about your approach now that we’re actually giving them something. What do you give them? What are your best finds? Give us your best things that you found, and I’ll throw some in myself.

Dr. Klinghardt:
First of all, I treat patients by the theory that the best treatment should always be a combination of three things. The psychological element has to be in there in the treatment. The second one, some aspect of biophysics using lasers, using infrared light, using sauna therapy, using vibrational tools and all that, and the third leg is the biochemistry. It shouldn’t be just one. It should be a combination of the three.

Dr. Pompa:
I agree.

Dr. Klinghardt:
In terms of the psychological work, you probably know I use the family constellation work and some direct one-on-one body biofeedback counseling technique that I groomed to my own needs. It’s called psychokinesiology. That’s one part. Then in terms of the Lyme, we do like some of the new tools, the WAVE1 I think it’s called. It’s a device that you put on the wrist, and it shines light into the blood vessels. The lights piggyback on the light of the frequency.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I’ve seen that. I haven’t used it. You’re getting good results with it?

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, it just takes about three months before you get results. It’s not a sprint. That’s long distancing, but it works very well. It certainly contributes to the healing of the patient. Then the herbs that we use, I use exclusively herbs that I’ve extracted, really, from the literature, herbs that have shown to have effects that are beyond what antibiotics can do. The first one may be cryptolepis.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, yeah, cryptolepis.

Dr. Klinghardt:
That’s been recently shown to be 100% effective for Lyme. The rosemary tincture is very high up on our list. Japanese knotweed is probably…

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I just read that. There was a great study that was just circulating for a while, and I had read a study about it some years ago. Yeah, it turned out, out of all the things they tested including the antibiotics, the Japanese knotweed actually outperformed it.

Dr. Klinghardt:
We’ve been doing that for 15 years. I’ve used Japanese knotweed and rosemary tincture and a few other things, but these are the key ones. Really, the only new thing that appeared on the horizon lately was the work with disulfiram. Disulfiram is a medical drug that’s used by alcoholics under the name Antabuse that was patented in 1830, so it’s a very old drug and was used for completely different purposes in the industry. Then found that if alcoholics take it they get sick from the alcohol. It deconditions them, so they stop. They start disliking alcohol.

It works quite well. It’s an inexpensive drug, and it has been found to be 100% lethal in an in vitro study. In vitro always means, okay, it’s outside the body, and it’s pretty easy to find things that kill things outside the body. Inside the body the question is always, okay, how high can you go with that item before you kill the patient? We found, first of all, by making the drug Liposomal, that much lower doses reach to the deeper compartments in our body. We always try to reach the limbic system where the [00:24:28] of Lyme disease.

Here’s how I proceed. We muscle test people on the number of herbs. We got about ten different herbs, some powders, some tinctures, and then we ask the patient—then we tell them, okay, you should take whatever, two dropperfuls of Japanese knotweed three times a day. Then we have the patient calculate the weekly dose of all of these. In this case, there will be six dropperfuls a day times seven. Six times seven, you put that amount in a blender plus the calculated amounts on the other herbs also in a blender, and then we’re adding in some MicroPhos. That’s the wonderful highly, highly tested and micronized forms of smallest liposomal particles and some MicroPhos. We’re adding phospholipids to that in a blender, and then blend the hell out of it, maybe with a little bit of water in it. I like to also add a little MCT oil to it.

Dr. Pompa:
Basically, you’re almost making your own liposome by blending it with some…

Dr. Klinghardt:
With individualize liposomal blend of Lyme disease. With that, we’ve had over the years fantastic improvements in people. What really emerged with that—once we are succeeding with taming the Lyme and the Babesia and the Bartonella, once we have that under control, what really emerges underneath is the layer of all the common viruses that we’re all familiar with. The herpes type 6, the Epstein-barr everybody talks about. Then people get lost in trying to treat the herpesviruses. Nobody has ever succeeded to treat.

Dr. Pompa:
They’re opportune. They’re going to be there in some—hiding.

Dr. Klinghardt:
The deeper Level 2 that is the retroviruses—and I’ve developed a couple of products. One is from Ki Science, K-I Science, the product called RetroV and BioPure. We have a tincture that’s very effective. It’s called EN-V, E-N and then V.

Dr. Pompa:
EN-V, Ashley will put some of these up when we run this for people. They can put the name. That way, people aren’t scrambling to get the names.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Then if you look even deeper, that’s when you find the strata of metal toxicology. Most Americans have deep levels of lead in their bones still.

Dr. Pompa:
You’re right.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Definitely, my generation. A little bit better in the younger people, but not much better. Nobody talks about lead anymore.

Dr. Pompa:
Oh, I talk a lot about lead. It’s four generations inherited. Number one source of lead is actually mom because it’s in the bone. They lose bone during pregnancy. It happened to my children. My wife had massively high levels that she got from her mom who ended up dying of cancer, and my wife was heading down the same road. We couldn’t balance her methylation. Her hormones were off. Anyways, as it turned out, her lead was off the chart.

Oh, and then my kids, who were never vaccinated, at least [00:28:01], their lead levels were off the chart. They got it from their mom, so this is a four generation problem. It’s a big deal.

Dr. Klinghardt:
We’re looking for that very carefully. My treatments for that are pretty simple. We give people a pretty high dose of zinc. Most people that have lead toxicity have KPU, but that’s a whole other story. We give them doses of zinc and B6, and Vitamin B1is published as being one of the most effective tools to detox lead. It’s largely forgotten. We like it because it’s also a treatment for the coronavirus. It’s a good time to do the—also good treatment for Lyme disease, the combination that we use now of this disulfiram together with some herbs.

Dr. Pompa:
I’ll say this too. Coronavirus, the flu is a coronavirus. This is good for the flu period. You’re talking about B6, B1, thiamine, zinc. That’s fantastic.

Dr. Klinghardt:
We give it for the lead detox specifically, but as a side effect, we’re protecting people from a whole bunch of viruses. The most nasty metal that is a direct growth factor for Lyme spirochetes is aluminum. It’s [00:29:25] aluminum. There’s been recent studies from Chris Exley, a professor in England who found extraordinary high levels of aluminum in the brain of autistic people that have died with the illness, extraordinary high aluminum levels. The same has been reported for decades on the Alzheimer brain being extremely high of aluminum, also mercury, but aluminum is twice as high as mercury in the Alzheimer brain. Now we’re finding Lyme—there’s an English lab where we can look inside the mitochondria, and we find that all of our mitochondria are stuffed full with nanoparticles of aluminum. It’s a really sad story.

Dr. Pompa:
I want people to hear one thing because they’re going to run out, and they’re going to either do a blood test or just a urine test. When this stuff’s in the brain, you’re not testing it without biopsy here, folks. It’s not like you can run this test and go—my fear is that people run and get a test and say, oh, I checked my metals, and they’re okay, if it were only so simple. Isn’t that the truth?

Dr. Klinghardt:
There is the test from France that we have. What’s it called, the one on the hand?

Female:
OligoScan?

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, we’ve used them. I still have a skepticism about all…

Dr. Klinghardt:
No, it’s like if you know what you’re testing. You’re testing the metals in the fascia of the hand, in the palm of the hand. The metals in there are like [00:31:01]. When you take a first measurement, it very accurately gives you the basic—the life history of that patient. What you will find is, in everyone, now aluminum is the highest metal of all of them, then followed by the lead or mercury and cadmium, barium, all of those. The technology’s very clean that’s used.

Actually, they use a very simple trick. The instrument, the OligoScan, the actual instrument part, that is a part how metals are determined in your blood. When you send a urine sample or a blood sample, it’s exactly that technology that looks for how much lead is there and what concentration. They use to simply groom the same instrument to do it measured in the skin rather than in the body fluid. It’s as reliable as the blood test that we get. Knowing, okay, we’re not measuring blood here. We’re measuring a particular tissue in the body. How representative that is of the rest of the body, well, the symptoms decide that.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, there’s no perfect test, right? You’re measuring that tissue, but this tissue’s a little different. I always tell people there is no perfect test. We can do testing and get some ideas, but you’re right. You could get some ideas. Ultimately, what are the symptoms?

Dr. Klinghardt:
There is a perfect test. It’s called ART. It was our modern ways of brain biopsy, basically, where we could look at the brain and find really what’s in there and what shouldn’t be in there and all of that. Anyway, so the chronic infections are hugely on the rise. Not because the bugs have gotten bad but because we’re treating them bad, so that’s number one. From the environmental influences, there’s really three. There is electrosmog. There is the mold, and there is the agrochemicals here that are now everywhere in the air, in the food, and in the drinking water.

Glyphosate is now the leader in that because of Stephanie Seneff’s research. There is tens of thousands of others that are in our systems that cross react with each other and cause trouble. What in our community falsely have been focused on, what are these things doing to our cells? The new focus now in the most mind of people is what is it doing to the bugs that naturally live in your lung? What is it doing to the bugs that naturally live in your sinuses? What is it doing to the bugs that naturally live in your brain?

Every organ has its own microbiome. We know that now. Bugs with foreign DNA that live in our tissues and are hugely important, there’s a certain bug that should live in the breast tissue of women. When it’s not there, they get breast cancer. These are all serious issues, and these microbes in us, they’re highly, highly sensitive to Wi-Fi.

Dr. Pompa:
I mean, I think you brought up a great point, right? I mean, right now it’s very in vogue to do a lot of microbiome testing, whether it’s biome, or there’s many of these test right now. What benefit do you think it has? Then I’m going to ask you the same question about SNPs. It’s also in vogue to do all the genetic testing. How useful do you think both of those types of testing are? I bring those up because they’re very in vogue right now where so many practitioners are doing them.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Yeah, so we know that each species of bugs communicates with every other species of bugs, and they’re constantly adjusting their numbers and their activity. Each species has at their hand about four or five toxic substances they can create when they feel unhappy, and they have four or five very important biochemical substances that they can shed into us that are hugely helpful for our health. Every bug has a possibility to contribute to our health or to take away from, and this is the truth. This is little talked about. Looking at the microbiome is a nice beginning, but it’s all like kindergarten. We do not know if the bugs that we see are happy bugs contributing to us or are unhappy bugs. Until we get to all the excretion products, all the polypeptides and signal peptides and amino acids and sugars that they’re producing and immune active substances, it’s really about that. It’s not about the number of this or that, but we’re far away from that.

Dr. Pompa:
I couldn’t agree more. Everyone comes to me. Here’s my microbiome test. What does it mean? I see very healthy, amazing people with some organisms that I would’ve said, boy, that’s a bad guy. Yet, it’s working in their microbiome, and it’s a very happy bug.

Dr. Klinghardt:
There’s no such thing as a bad guy.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s right. It’s all part of microbiome.

Dr. Klinghardt:
The same is really true with this SNPs and the genetic testing. We know that almost for every SNP that you have you got some backup genes, some other classes of genes that make up for that. The truth is none of us would have come forward in evolution if these SNPs really would take away from our ability to…

Dr. Pompa:
It’s so true. It’s so true.

Dr. Klinghardt:
They must’ve given us some evolutionary advantage that we do not understand yet.

Dr. Pompa:
I couldn’t agree more. So many people with the homozygous, MTHFR, they have no problem detoxing. They’re very healthy people. It seemed we wanted to put so much emphasis on this, and we had hoped this would lead to all these great treatments. Frankly, we have found clinically it’s made no difference, absolutely no difference, and I found that with my group. You found that. I think it’s a big waste of time right now. I mean, maybe 20 years from now it’ll mean more. You’re right. The pathways around these SNPs, we haven’t even discovered how many there are.

Dr. Klinghardt:
We work with a number of people that try to crack the genome with the different interpretation. I’m watchful, waiting, and we’ll see. Eventually, there’s going to be a couple of good things coming out of it that people agree on, but I also think we’re far away from that still.

Dr. Pompa:
I think we’re far away from it. The danger too, Doc, is that now people running around defining themselves by these things, right? They’re running around, and that’s a problem here. They classify themselves as this gene or identify themselves as this genome. Now they’re actually strongly creating the very problem. That’s the issue I have with it too. I don’t like diagnosing people with genes.

Dr. Klinghardt:
For me, the shocking insight is that, really, life isn’t that difficult. There’s a couple of toxins in all of us that have to be brought down. There’s a couple of…

Dr. Pompa:
I couldn’t agree more. You and I resonate. Listen, you would’ve gotten a lot of very challenged people well, and so have I. If you said to me or if you said to you, what’s the key, we’d both answer the same. We would say you know what? We just got some of these things out of those people, and the body can heal itself, right? That’s it. I mean, there’s nothing more complicated than that. It’s pretty damn simple, actually.

Dr. Klinghardt:
I mean, the wonderful thing is the body is a self-healing system. All we have to do is remove some obstacles.

Dr. Pompa:
That’s it. That’s it.

Dr. Klinghardt:
I mean, the good thing is it’s still possible to be healthy in this time, but it’s getting increasingly difficult. The challenges are in front of us.

Dr. Pompa:
Doc, one of the things I say, the perfect diet today won’t get you well. You may not get well without the perfect diet but meaning that it’s a deeper issue today. It’s a lot of these toxins and infections.

Dr. Klinghardt:
I like to say here towards the end of our talk, I do think—I created this tool, Autonomic Response Testing, and it has guided us way into the future and shown us where we need to look, what we need to know, and what products to use and so on. I think I’d really like to give that to people. It’s not like there’s other people teaching it. Autonomic Response Testing is a wonderful tool to be able to navigate these difficult times. With coronavirus now, we don’t know what it’s groomed to do. We don’t what the intent is, if there is any, whether it’s escaped from a lab or whether it’s intentionally seeded out, whether it is just to force us into agreeing to get vaccinated.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, no, there’s a lot of things to…

Dr. Klinghardt:
We’ll see how that evolves. We already had some warnings from high up places that we should not even dare to announce that we have a cure for it.

Dr. Pompa:
You’d be in big trouble.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Immediately be in big trouble. We got it very high, from a high up place, in fact, very high up place, and so we need to see how it unfolds. We are glad that even the long distance testing, which we’ve so developed—we have a bio-computer that can crack the [voice] code of patients. We’ve already treated the first coronavirus victims very successfully, all the people by just using the ART technique. For me, it has taken my fear away. We have a tool where we can find out what’s going on, and we don’t depend on any laboratory, on any instrument to do that with. It’s just something I wanted to speak out. I know we have now—we have to deal with the destruction of the atmosphere, with the chemtrails and other nuclear radiation that has really, really stripped the ozone layer in far worst ways than people know and discombobulated our atmosphere. That’s where the real big stuff is right now and the pollution of our food chain, the pollution of all the bodies of water.

We have serious problems coming up, and it’s not going to be like that it’s going to culminate in 15, 20 years. This is in five, six years we’re going to hit a real barrier to going forward with humanity and with the life of all higher mammals on the planet. You’re going to be jeopardy. Whether we collectively are going to be intelligent and move forward or that we croak from it, that is not decided yet. I do think people, reasonable people need a tool that’s a bit more reliable than a pendulum to navigate their way through this next few years.

Dr. Pompa:
How do they access, yeah, your tool?

Dr. Klinghardt:
My company, my teaching company is called Klinghardt Institute. Klinghardt spelled with a D-T in the middle. Klinghardt Institute is the authoritative approved by me website, also where we have a lot of information on the material. Yeah, maybe a little bit more, the crisis of Lyme disease is really linked directly to the growth of Wi-Fi and to the increased pollution in the atmosphere and the pollution of our food chain, especially glyphosate, which lingers in our gut for decades once we have it. In the US, even 80% of organic food is full of glyphosate, which is shocking. Basically, there is no more clean food left in the country, and you need to know that. You need to have a strategy onboard to deal with that.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, I agree.

Dr. Klinghardt:
The illnesses that we see now, the chronic fatigue, the myalgia, the encephalopathies, the population is so rapidly getting ill that in a few years, three, four years, everybody will have a list of symptoms and a list of diagnoses. Yet, stepping out of that, getting back, regaining your health is not that big a deal. I’m 70 years old now and looking back at the ups and downs of life and the different phases of illnesses that I was watching as a practitioner. In the 80s, it was all about candida. In the 90s, it was all about the viruses. Then the turn of the century came Lyme disease. Then came SARS and [00:45:06]. Then came the push where the vaccines got more and more toxic as an added thing that we had to deal with.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, there’s a lot to deal with, right? I mean, there is.

Dr. Klinghardt:
I know that you’ve taken some leadership in the detox area in creating protocols that are doable for people. I’ve taken some leadership in coming out with non-pharmaceutical treatment for the chronic infections, and we do very well with that. With the coronavirus now, it’s for us, of course, a huge opportunity also. It’s not just a—we feel sorry about the patients that don’t dare to travel now because they’re so spooked. They’re all sitting at home often suffering, and we can’t help them beyond a certain degree. We’re in an exciting time. Humanity is committing collective suicide on one level. On the other level, there is enough of us that are finding ways out and finding how to support and sustain life until, hopefully, the forces that are behind the powers that we see will see the stupidity and the destructiveness of what they’re doing, and we can change course.

We need to see what—we need tools, and you’ve developed a number of tools. I have a number of tools. There’s many good people out there that are offering accurate advice right now, and I’d like to leave it there right now.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah no, exactly, I agree. There’s hope. You and I have dedicated our lives to this. Right now, you’re right. There’s so much that is affecting people. It’s ironic because you and I resonate on the simplicity of getting people’s lives back. The complexity is how they’re really affecting us with so many of these chemicals unknowingly to people through glyphosate which is sprayed on our food and now on the rain and affecting every bit of our food and unknowingly in vaccines and everything, so many of these exposures today. Yet, if we remove the interference, the body can heal. We have both witnessed that, so there lies the hope. I agree. There’s some great research and discoveries right now amongst all of the chaos.

I appreciate you coming on. This is great to hear some of the things that you’re doing. You and I have to get more—we have to have our—our staffs have to—our teams have to get us united more so we can share things, more and more things with each other. I’d love to come—you come on one of my doctor calls. I have a group of doctors we train, that I train. We train together, and so I’d love to have you on that and share as well. Thank you for being on. I appreciate you, Dr. Klinghardt.

Dr. Klinghardt:
Thank you. It was a pleasure.

Dr. Pompa:
Yeah, thanks again.